Alexandrian Macedonian list

[davem]

Hi,

Any comments on this list as a first shot at an Alexandrian Macedonianlist ? Currently at 795 point by my count.

Any thoughts on whether 3x8 vs 2x 12 for foot companion BG's? I decided on 8's because that way the Thracians can provide rear support for 2 of them if there isn't bad ground to be contested but I'm not completely decided.

As a separate question, are Greek Mercenary Iphiktrean Hoplites coverd by the limitation of no more than 6 Greek Mercenary or Allied Traditional hoplites after 328 BC? I assumed they are but wasn't sure of the author's intent.

IC, 3 TC - 24 mounted stands, Initiative +3

1 6 Agrianians LF Unprotected Superior Undrilled Javelins Light spear Other
2 4 Cretan Archers LF Unprotected Superior Drilled Bow - Other
3 4 Rhodian Slingers LF Unprotected Average Drilled Sling - Other
4 6 Eastern Light Horse LH Unprotected Average Undrilled Javelins Light spear
5 6 Bactrians LH Unprotected Average Undrilled Bow Light spear Other
6 4 Agema Cv Armoured Elite Drilled - Lancers Swordmen
7 4 Companions Cv Armoured Superior Drilled - Lancers Swordmen
8 8 Thracians MF Protected Average Undrilled - Light spear Swordmen
9 8 Foot Companions HF Protected Average Drilled - Pikemen Pikemen
10 8 Foot Companions HF Protected Average Drilled - Pikemen Pikemen
11 8 Foot Companions HF Protected Average Drilled - Pikemen Pikemen
12 8 Hypaspists HF Protected Superior Drilled - Pikemen Pikemen
13 4 Prodromoi LH Unprotected Average Drilled - Lancers Swordmen

8 pts extra to allow Hypaspists the option of MI, Light spear, sword.

If you're trying for PBI of +4 you need to get 10 H Cv in your list. I'd suggest dropping the Agema and the Cretans (take Macedonians instead) and getting 6 Thessalian HC instead. You may need to decide what is more important, PBI of +4 or the ability to take the Hypaspists as MF.

[batesmotel]

Hi,

If you're trying for PBI of +4 you need to get 10 H Cv in your list. I'd suggest dropping the Agema and the Cretans (take Macedonians instead) and getting 6 Thessalian HC instead. You may need to decide what is more important, PBI of +4 or the ability to take the Hypaspists as MF.

I noticed this problem after working to get to 24 mounted stands (and then realizing I needed 25). What are your thoughts about the value of Thessalian cavalry with light spear versus Companions with lance for offensive use in the army? I went for the Agema rather than Thessalians (or average Greek mercenaries) because I thought the lance would be more effective, but I haven't played FoG yet so that's just a guess from reading the rules. Thanks for your comments.

[davem]

Hi,

If you're trying for PBI of +4 you need to get 10 H Cv in your list. I'd suggest dropping the Agema and the Cretans (take Macedonians instead) and getting 6 Thessalian HC instead. You may need to decide what is more important, PBI of +4 or the ability to take the Hypaspists as MF.

I noticed this problem after working to get to 24 mounted stands (and then realizing I needed 25). What are your thoughts about the value of Thessalian cavalry with light spear versus Companions with lance for offensive use in the army? I went for the Agema rather than Thessalians (or average Greek mercenaries) because I thought the lance would be more effective, but I haven't played FoG yet so that's just a guess from reading the rules. Thanks for your comments.

Well I don't claim my take on Alex Mac to be the best, just that the list I am using currently I have got to after several variants. In my experience the Agema are not worth the points. You already possess some of the best mtd in the Classical period and if facing Kn the Agema will still be just so many victims.
Lance can sometimes be a draw back as you may charge when you don't want to! I think the Thessalians look fine as they are at least as good as just about any other Cv out there, and the saving in points allows you to get the Prodromoi to get to that +4 PBI if you so choose.

I'd suggest taking at least one BG of the MF Iphekratean's Off Sp as well as the Thracians.

Regards

Dave M

[batesmotel]

Does the restriction to a max of 6 Mercenary Greek or Traditional Allied Hoplites also apply to the Greek Mercenary Iphikratean Hoplites? I considered this as an 8 stand BG option but then wasn't sure if the limit applied.

[flameberge]

I noticed this problem after working to get to 24 mounted stands (and then realizing I needed 25). What are your thoughts about the value of Thessalian cavalry with light spear versus Companions with lance for offensive use in the army? I went for the Agema rather than Thessalians (or average Greek mercenaries) because I thought the lance would be more effective, but I haven't played FoG yet so that's just a guess from reading the rules. Thanks for your comments.

Well I don't claim my take on Alex Mac to be the best, just that the list I am using currently I have got to after several variants. In my experience the Agema are not worth the points. You already possess some of the best mtd in the Classical period and if facing Kn the Agema will still be just so many victims.
Lance can sometimes be a draw back as you may charge when you don't want to! I think the Thessalians look fine as they are at least as good as just about any other Cv out there, and the saving in points allows you to get the Prodromoi to get to that +4 PBI if you so choose.

I'd suggest taking at least one BG of the MF Iphekratean's Off Sp as well as the Thracians.

Regards

Dave M

Not only are Lt. Spear not shock troopers they actually might have a slight edge over similarly equipped cav if you end up in terrain other than open since the lances only give the POA in the open and the Lt spear has no such restriction.

[batesmotel]

Here's another iteration that gets to 26 mounted stands for the +4 PDI. Got this by eliminating the (reportedly) celery wielding Agema and replacing them with 4 x Greek Mercenary Cavalry and 2 more stands of Companions. (Also dismissed Cretan archers for their lower cost Macedonian alternative.)

Any thoughts on how useful a 6 stand group of Companions is versus 4?

This list has the foot companions as 2 x 12 BG rather than 3 x8. Any thoughts?

I'm hoping that the Thracians plus the option to deploy the Hypaspists as MI will give me enough troops to dispute bad terrain as necessary.


IC, 3 TC, PDI +4

1 6 Agrianians LF Unprotected Superior Undrilled Javelins Light spear
2 4 Macedonian Archers LF Unprotected Average Undrilled Bow
3 4 Rhodian Slingers LF Unprotected Average Undrilled Sling
4 6 Paionian Light Horse LH Unprotected Average Undrilled Javelins Light spear
5 6 Bactrian Light Horse LH Unprotected Average Undrilled Bow Light spear
6 4 Greek Cavalry Cv Armoured Average Drilled - Light spear Swordmen
7 4 Prodromoi LH Unprotected Average Drilled - Lancers Swordmen
8 6 Companions Cv Armoured Superior Drilled - Lancers Swordmen
9 12 Foot Companion HF Protected Average Drilled - Pikemen Pikemen
10 12 Foot Companion HF Protected Average Drilled - Pikemen Pikemen
11 8 Hypaspists HF Protected Superior Drilled - Pikemen Pikemen
12 8 Thracian Peltasts MF Protected Average Undrilled - Light spear Swordmen
- - - - - - - -
Option: Hypaspists as MI, LS, SW - - - - - - - - 8

[batesmotel]

Here's another iteration that gets to 26 mounted stands for the +4 PDI. Got this by eliminating the (reportedly) celery wielding Agema and replacing them with 4 x Greek Mercenary Cavalry and 2 more stands of Companions. (Also dismissed Cretan archers for their lower cost Macedonian alternative.)

Any thoughts on how useful a 6 stand group of Companions is versus 4?

This list has the foot companions as 2 x 12 BG rather than 3 x8. Any thoughts?

I'm hoping that the Thracians plus the option to deploy the Hypaspists as MI will give me enough troops to dispute bad terrain as necessary.


IC, 3 TC, PDI +4, 797 points

1 6 Agrianians LF Unprotected Superior Undrilled Javelins Light spear
2 4 Macedonian Archers LF Unprotected Average Undrilled Bow
3 4 Rhodian Slingers LF Unprotected Average Undrilled Sling
4 6 Paionian Light Horse LH Unprotected Average Undrilled Javelins Light spear
5 6 Bactrian Light Horse LH Unprotected Average Undrilled Bow Light spear
6 4 Greek Cavalry Cv Armoured Average Drilled - Light spear Swordmen
7 4 Prodromoi LH Unprotected Average Drilled - Lancers Swordmen
8 6 Companions Cv Armoured Superior Drilled - Lancers Swordmen
9 12 Foot Companion HF Protected Average Drilled - Pikemen Pikemen
10 12 Foot Companion HF Protected Average Drilled - Pikemen Pikemen
11 8 Hypaspists HF Protected Superior Drilled - Pikemen Pikemen
12 8 Thracian Peltasts MF Protected Average Undrilled - Light spear Swordmen

Option: Hypaspists as MI, LS, SW

[Montagu]

IMO, the theory of creating a list is just... theory. More depends on your style of play and your skill as a general. Trying to get a +4 vs +3 shouldn't be your goal initially.

If I were you, I would build a balanced list and play many times against many different armies and players. Then you can decide (or ask for advice) what would make your army "better for you" or "more fun to play". IMO, I would also start with a 600 pt army then build up to 800 with your experience. Having too big a battle to start out will certainly slow you down, take longer to play and be harder to handle.

Having fun is most important!

[batesmotel]

In this case I using 800 points since the list will be for the "get to know the rules" tournament on Saturday in Manchester, CT, USA. I certainly don't expect that some one else will be able to tell me the ideal list for my style of play but I do find that the comments I've gotten have been helpful both in terms of giving me insight into others' expereiences with the army and also into subtleties in the rules that I have probably overlooked idue to nothaving played them. I think that all the lists I've posted so far are ones that I could be comfortable playing (based on past expereince with DBM/WRG 5th, 6th, 7th/etc, and I haven't ruled out any of them as contenders yet.

But I find the feedback interesting and that it has helped me to clarify some of the trade offs between the different versions of the list I've posted.