Depth representation

[Kineas1]

And note what the FoG folks said about depths. Way back in this thread, somebody said "the Hellenistic tactical manuals say" but there's considerable doubt about whether these are tactical manuals or arithmetic manuals written for boys who liked war... it has always seemed unlikely that skirmishers fought in anything resembling eight ranks... what would be the benefit? A deep screen would be a brutally hard formation to maintain over any distance, much less over difficult ground. Undrilled skirmishers, mounted or foot, are more likely to be in cohesive little groups, with distances between groups--something that I seem to remember the rules actually suggest!

Bases are an abstraction. I play LH armies, and I tell newcomers that a 4 or 6 base LH unit represents something like an electron orbital path--the number of mounted warriors is somewhere under those bases, or that's the highest probability of where they are...

[rbodleyscott]

Bases are an abstraction. I play LH armies, and I tell newcomers that a 4 or 6 base LH unit represents something like an electron orbital path--the number of mounted warriors is somewhere under those bases, or that's the highest probability of where they are...

Absolutely, and the javelin ranges in the rules are actually based on the assumption that individuals scoot forward out of the area covered by the BG's bases, throw their javelin, then scoot back agsin.

[babyshark]

Bases are an abstraction. I play LH armies, and I tell newcomers that a 4 or 6 base LH unit represents something like an electron orbital path--the number of mounted warriors is somewhere under those bases, or that's the highest probability of where they are...

I really like that description. Not only is it spot on, but it sounds all educated. Does the fact that there are some very oddly shaped orbitals mean that I can use non-rectangular formations for my LH?

1S2 2S2 2P6 3S2 3P6 . . . .

Marc

[flameberge]

I don't see how the ratios in the Roman Army list implies the same number of soldiers to a base between HF and LF. If anything the ratio shows that a LF base has 1/3 the number of troops that a HF base has. Unless I'm wrong the Republican Roman legion was organized with every Century of 60 Hastati having 20 Velites attached. And for every 60 Hastati there were 60 Principe.

[nikgaukroger]

Polybios' description has a legio of 1200 velites, 1200 hastati, 1200 principes and 600 triarii.

[flameberge]

You might be right, Polybius was terribly inconsistent, or I should say the ancient sources that refer to his book Tactics are. I don't think the actual book Tactics has survived.

[nikgaukroger]

Polybios is quite clear IIRC - I suspect you are getting mixed up with Livy's description of the earlier legio.

[ars_belli]

According to Polybius (translation from Lacus Curtius):

The division and appointment of the tribunes having thus been so made that each legion has the same number of officers, those of each legion take their seats apart, and they draw lots for the tribes, and summon them singly in the order of the lottery. From each tribe they first of all select four lads of more or less the same age and physique. When these are brought forward the officers of the first legion have first choice, those of the second choice, those of the third third, and those of the fourth last. Another batch of four is now brought forward, and this time the officers of the second legion have first choice and so on, those of the first choosing last. A third batch having been brought forward the tribunes of the third legion choose first, and those of the second last. By thus continuing to give each legion first choice in turn, each gets men of the same standard. When they have chosen the number determined on — that is when the strength of each legion is brought up to four thousand two hundred, or in times of exceptional danger to five thousand — the old system was to choose the cavalry after the four thousand two hundred infantry, but they now choose them first, the censor selecting them according to their wealth; and three hundred are assigned to each legion. (Polybius, Histories 6.20).

And:

The tribunes in Rome, after administering the oath, fix for each legion a day and place at which the men are to present themselves without arms and then dismiss them. When they come to the rendezvous, they choose the youngest and poorest to form the velites; the next to them are made hastati; those in the prime of life principes; and the oldest of all triarii, these being the names among the Romans of the four classes in each legion distinct in age and equipment. They divide them so that the senior men known as triarii number six hundred, the principes twelve hundred, the hastati twelve hundred, the rest, consisting of the youngest, being velites. If the legion consists of more than four thousand men, they divide accordingly, except as regards the triarii, the number of whom is always the same. (Polybius, Histories 6.21.6-9)

Sounds pretty clear to me!

cheers,
Scott