What to recruit first?

[duncan]

I always recruit first, then go for the upgrades. Doing this you'll get more experience for your units (I think).

Light infantry is not that light at all and I always get three or four auxilia/warriors at the beggining of the campaign. Never go for skirmishers, don't know why...their stats are always awful...it's like having a good striker in Football Manager 2005 whoo scores 4 or 5 goals per season. I always have experienced units covering new recruited units, to give them time to get some experience of thier own...then go for some flanking cavalry. Light cavalry works wonders too.... Then some heavy infantry (veterans/principes). When I've got 20-23 units or so, i stop recruiting and buy some advances for the less experienced units (to give them some meat).

[ehre]

calvarys always a last for me, theyre useful for flanking, but I usually just throw men into the grinder and expect them to be better than my opponent's

[zedeyejoe]

When I've got 20-23 units or so, i stop recruiting and buy some advances for the less experienced units (to give them some meat).

Here I differ with you. I recruit and give the guys improved weapons and armour as soon as I can.

Why? Well experience is gained by winning and killing. I try to get my guys gaining experience as fast as I can. So I suppose I aim at small elite armies rather than mass. You will find this approach useful when you are fighting limited number of units battles.

[ehre]

When I've got 20-23 units or so, i stop recruiting and buy some advances for the less experienced units (to give them some meat).

Here I differ with you. I recruit and give the guys improved weapons and armour as soon as I can.

Why? Well experience is gained by winning and killing. I try to get my guys gaining experience as fast as I can. So I suppose I aim at small elite armies rather than mass. You will find this approach useful when you are fighting limited number of units battles.

quality over quantity, i like it

[zedeyejoe]

On the subject of cavalry. Because it is expensive you tend to get it later on in the game but you are going to need it. In some of the later scenerios you are given a time limit to win and fast good cavalry is really useful.

When you first get cavalry, use it to slaughter skirmishers, thats the best way to gain experience. Once it is at the higher levels and with improved weapons & armour then it will beat light infanty (if the light infantry is in the open). You can even beat heavy infnatry (and get tons of experience) if you attack it from the rear whilst it is fighting one of you other units.

Cavalry is fun and its only real problem is difficult terrain and elephants.

[legatus]

On the subject of cavalry. Because it is expensive you tend to get it later on in the game but you are going to need it. In some of the later scenerios you are given a time limit to win and fast good cavalry is really useful.

When you first get cavalry, use it to slaughter skirmishers, thats the best way to gain experience. Once it is at the higher levels and with improved weapons & armour then it will beat light infanty (if the light infantry is in the open). You can even beat heavy infnatry (and get tons of experience) if you attack it from the rear whilst it is fighting one of you other units.

Cavalry is fun and its only real problem is difficult terrain and elephants.

I've only completed about 6 scenarios at the hardest level(been playing since sunday), and after a awhile I threw the skirmishers away.
If you have tough scenario with limited number of units, the skirmishes are close to useless. Unless they've got lot of skills, mine seem to lose in equal hand to hand combat with other skirmishers too. I'd go to quality too, but in the hardest level I think it's good idea to have quantity and reserves too.
Now I think I have too much very good light infantry(not auxilia). Haven't biten me yet though.

I noticed that cavalry is pretty effective against skirmishers(as they should be). Best kills I've gotten when attacking skirmishers from rear, while they've been blocking the cavalry's path while cavalry is moving somewhere else. Then they don't end forming a clear battleline , but instead charge almost through the skirmihes formation slicing lot of quick kills. I use cavalry for flanking and hitting soft spots quickly, I feel they're wasted on one-one battles.

[honvedseg]

The limited effectiveness of skirmishers is misleading. If you use ranged weapons to soften up an opposing unit before your heavy hitters grind them to iron filings and hamburger, the opposing unit will hit its morale points sooner and inflict less casualties on your units in return. One such unit firing and fleeing, or screened by your heavy troops, can be very handy against a tough enemy unit, too many and you have a useless army after the ammunition is gone.

[spedius01]

Ave guys,

I've read with great interest your ideas and explanations and I can see a lot of sense in what you've written.
However, if I can remind you of the topic, "What to recruit first?", we digress and need to get back on topic.

When you begin the Roman Campaign you are initially presented with a small, basic, start-up army.
The Legate with a unit each of militia, skirmishers and scouts, also some funds in the amount of 50 dinari.
First question, will any of these units be in your final army? If the answer is yes, the next question is,
which one or ones? If the answer is no, the next question is, do you disband some or all? If you decide to
stick with the start-up army do you then use them as the core upon which you build your entire army?

One possible option is disband them all and recruit a unit of auxilia in their place. The problem with that
option is you may invest time and money on that unit and it repays you by defeating all opponents and
thereby getting all of the experience. So there you are with an army of one plus you. An army which can
defeat all enemy up to and including scenario #10, men in black. The auxilia had grade 1 weapons, armour
and helmet from equipment. I've tried it as an experiment and, believe it or not, it is feasible. But to continue
with an army of one beyond scenario #10, I'm not sure if that would be wise step to take.

Another possibility is to disband the militia and skirmishers. Then recruit a unit of velites, who you have to
continuously rescue with the scouts until you can afford another fighting unit, maybe some auxilia?

Yet another possibility is to, once again, disband the militia and skirmishers. Then recruit another unit of scouts.
With scouts, especially at the beginning of the campaign, you have speed and punch. There aren't too many armies
that you will face in the early days who can beat them, also, you still have 50 denari left towards the next unit.
The Legate and the two scout units, a three squad cavalry army at the beginning, that could be interesting!

A couple of other choices should also be mentioned. Disband all and recruit 14 peasant or 6 more militia squads!
Not good ideas, the only units the peasants could hope to beat would be other peasants. If you started with 7
squads of militia, your course could be set on an evolutionary army, a bit of everything.

The most radical possibilty of all is total disbandment with no replacements at first. You simply pack the money
away in your saddle bags and ride off into the sunset, your first battle and an appointment with destiny.

We have, finally, come to the main reason for this topic "What to recruit first?". That depends on your choice of
the type of your army. Is it Militia, Republican/Hoplite, Imperial or an evolutionary army? For further reading
regarding developments of the reasoning behind these army types see "Choosing your army" (Completed)

I believe, in order to be successful, you must have the composition of your completed army fixed in your mind first.
But, with the limited knowledge available to you at the beginning of the Roman Campaign, it is difficult to forecast
the nature of the enemies you will face or the terrain upon which you will have to fight. Therefore, whatever your
choice of a "Final Army" is, it must be a flexible army capable of meeting any enemy on any terrain.

Vale

M. Spedius Corbulo

NB. See the logic continued in "My Final Army (Mk. 1)".

[duncan]

When you begin the Roman Campaign you are initially presented with a small, basic, start-up army.
The Legate with a unit each of militia, skirmishers and scouts, also some funds in the amount of 50 dinari.
First question, will any of these units be in your final army? If the answer is yes, the next question is,
which one or ones? If the answer is no, the next question is, do you disband some or all? If you decide to
stick with the start-up army do you then use them as the core upon which you build your entire army?

I don't disband anything, the money you'll get is not enough. A 27-level militia can do one or two fights against later enemies (at least, in normal)...but they won't win you a battle in later stages. Anyway, I'd keep them all...

[legatus]

I think that early on should minimize the need for militias. I feel they're bit too vulnerable in the long run, and give no good punch.
I'd say anything else is better to build on.

I also agree that basically there are no useless units in game. I've found atleast that each has some merits. Only mitilias lack in the long run a good excuse why to keep them. Somebody may disagree, but I can't see good reason to keep them(except to keep reserves maybe).

[sum1won]

One useful trick with skirmishers is to send them out with a baby sitting unit of heavy cavalry behind. The skirmishers will fire at the enemy, and when they charge into combat, hit disengage immeadeaitly. If all goes well you should take out at least a few. While the enemy is chasing, slam the cavalry into them before they can get turned about, then, before they organize, disengage AGAIN. This one-two punch is excellent if your enemy is relying on shock units (elite units in the frontlines) to carry the day, and if done right, can literally cripple their army. Your opponent will likely want to use rally at this point to save his butt, and this will make him expend an extremely vital order. If he doesnt use rally or turn around, more fool him, because those troops will be wiped out. If you use only one or the other unit type to pull this off, the hit will not be quite enough to hamstring the unit.

[venividivici]

I like a well rounded army that evolves as the campaign progresses so I keep the start units, double them up, add two velites and two auxilia. Experience is increased first then weapons/armour. This army is usually OK up to just before mid game then I add the heavy infantry and go for the best - 4 units of praetorians and 5 of triarii plus two units of auxiliary cavalry. I tend to go for the command upgrades for the general rather than fighting upgrades as these make the army more manoeuverable in the later battles. This setup works well on Normal, but I doubt I will be able to have such high quality and high stat units on Hard.

[legatus]

Personally, I think roman auxilla are by far superior to roman spearmen. The rough terrain benefits more than make up for a slight increase in durability and a resitance to cavalry. Want those? Get real heavy infantry. The auxilia is the best light infantry troops you can get, while you can get far better heavy infantry than spearmen. Unit redundancy is very, very important.

If you disagree, feel free to start a thread.

I agree. Well trained & used auxies can handle almost anything.

Goes off-topic sorry...

Is there a big diffrence between spearman and hoslites(can be misspelled there)? For some odd reason, I just recently bough them and at first level they're more able than two spearman units at 5 level. It's like they'd defend and attack lot better.

[spedius01]

Hi Guys,

Perhaps you could help me?

I'd like to move the main bulk of the reply I made on the 23rd of November. It has more meaning as the basis for the topic than the lead item I originally posted.

I'd like to move all from the second paragraph onto the lead off posting. How do I go about doing that? Is it copy and paste? Is it as easy as that?

Please feel free to give me the benefit of your advise.

Vale

M. Spedius Corbulo

[ste]

Hi Spedius, all you need to do is go to the post in question, hit the Edit button, and then make your alternations. I.e.: you can cut and paste as you say. If your still having problems or need a better description then please let me know

[spedius01]

Hi Spedius, all you need to do is go to the post in question, hit the Edit button, and then make your alternations. I.e.: you can cut and paste as you say. If your still having problems or need a better description then please let me know

Ave ste,

Thanx for the help, I couldn't get it to work, not cut'n'paste and not copy'n'paste?

So put a xref as an NB. at the foot of my original lead into this topic. Check it out?

Vale

M. Spedius Corbulo

[ste]

I see the refrence to the other article... i see you edited 5 times, you can always use the preview button which will show you the changes to your post without actually saving them, that is useful if you are changing things and want to see how it would look

[spedius01]

I see the refrence to the other article... i see you edited 5 times, you can always use the preview button which will show you the changes to your post without actually saving them, that is useful if you are changing things and want to see how it would look

Ave ste,

Thanx for the tip.

I wrote my reply of 23rd November, checked and posted it. Later a thought struck me on improvements in grammar and content. This happened several times, until what you see now is, more or less, it. I was writing, what should have been, the basis for the topic. So it sort of evolved into something other than what I'd initially intended. The rest, as
they say, is history!

Until yet another idea strikes me!!!!

Vale

M. Spedius Corbulo

[scarfacetarraff]

I dont go for the militia much. I try to hang on and make do till I can afford something better. As I hate to disband unless its really necessary. You loose all the XP you have built up

Why would you disband?

I go for all of them ASAP. But, it seems to me that scouts are more effective early on.

[honvedseg]

My approach is to disband all of the starting units and buy a Roman Auxiliary light infantry unit. There should be enough left over to add a militia unit to help guard one of its flanks. That should be all you need for a few battles, until you can afford to buy a SECOND Auxilia. They will gain *** NO XP *** during the first battle, and very little in the next two, since most of the units they will face are too low in value to even be worthy of their attention. You might take a casualty or two, if you are playing on a higher difficulty setting, provided that you use a militia unit or two to avoid getting them outflanked and surrounded. I sell off the militia units as soon as I can afford something better.

An Auxilia unit will munch on a Level 1 Spearman unit and spit out the bones, even on open ground. Get these troops beefed up with a little XP as soon as possible, and they will be useful additions to your army for the rest of the game in almost any terrain.