Most hated scenarios

[BiteNibbleChomp]

I edited Mons18 to make it harder - If this is not the worst scenario ever, then explain how self-destructive units is better than a general Russian horde (oh wait, there is the Allied horde as well!)

- BNC

[Bonesoul]

Crete Naval so far, how much you get hurt before you can get troops landed is too much down to luck for me to enjoy (even if somehow historically accurate). Aux para's on the ground at start of turn one, as it appears they were at some time in the past would be much nicer.

[Delta66]

GC 41 Vyazma for me.

The mud can really ruin the scenario. Having played this scenario maybe 7-8 times. In some games, I had 3-4 more mud turns than average.

[Dragoon.]

I used to hate this one scenario from GC40 where you had to capture a french general and then suddenly units spawn out of the blue in an already secured area. That was very lame. Luckily they reworked that scenario in a patch later.
Now I find the the Market Garden and especially the Ardennes scenarios from Allied corps are the worst in terms of scenario design. Usually I'm a huge fun of most of the GC, AK and AC scenarios, but somehow they really dropped the ball on these. I barley recognized the actual battles, not even in the abstract ways of Panzer Corps. Oh, and Overloard was very bad too. Actually one of the worst Overlord scenarios I have played in many wargames. Omaha beach, what? Then again the following scenario Cobra was well done and challenging again.
I account these bloopers as burn out of the devs after working for, (What is it 3 years now?) continuously on Panzer Corps. I mean we all love pizza but eventually you get to be brassed off and just can't even smell it anymore.

[captainjack]

My new most hated - Prokhorovka 43 East.
5 million advanced and experienced aircraft, plenty of 85mm AA - all just out of view - plus SPAAG T90 (I think it's SPAAG in general, but the T90s somehow drive me nuts). Plus large numbers of very experienced tanks waiting just out of sight (including quite a lot of named units at 4 and 5*) and isolated pockets of heavily entrenched conscripts to trip up any movement. Even when aiming for MV with no time pressure it seems to be hard work.

I've tried many different approaches, including forgetting to deploy any units in the little pocket at the lower right (it was no problem at all and the extra tanks in the centre gave me hope for a few turns). They all start off looking promising, but end up with a nasty mess.

[BiteNibbleChomp]

My new most hated - Prokhorovka 43 East.
5 million advanced and experienced aircraft, plenty of 85mm AA - all just out of view - plus SPAAG T90 (I think it's SPAAG in general, but the T90s somehow drive me nuts). Plus large numbers of very experienced tanks waiting just out of sight (including quite a lot of named units at 4 and 5*) and isolated pockets of heavily entrenched conscripts to trip up any movement. Even when aiming for MV with no time pressure it seems to be hard work.

I've tried many different approaches, including forgetting to deploy any units in the little pocket at the lower right (it was no problem at all and the extra tanks in the centre gave me hope for a few turns). They all start off looking promising, but end up with a nasty mess.

Even compared with Arras18?

- BNC

[captainjack]

I have tried to erase Arras 18 from my memory - I went back to 43 East for an easier time to help me recover!

While I'm thinking of UK 18 (which I still haven't got back to yet) gas shells would have helped but defensive artillery fire kept de-powering them. You'd mentioned somewhere else maybe putting the attack up to make them more effective but the kill percentage seems to be capped at 81% no matter how high your attack. Maybe you should make them attack as artillery with a high attack so that defensive fire doesn't stop them. You could raise the attack so that they have a higher chance of a kill. Hope that's not too off topic, suggesting how to make hated scenarios less hateable!

[BiteNibbleChomp]

I have tried to erase Arras 18 from my memory - I went back to 43 East for an easier time to help me recover!

While I'm thinking of UK 18 (which I still haven't got back to yet) gas shells would have helped but defensive artillery fire kept de-powering them. You'd mentioned somewhere else maybe putting the attack up to make them more effective but the kill percentage seems to be capped at 81% no matter how high your attack. Maybe you should make them attack as artillery with a high attack so that defensive fire doesn't stop them. You could raise the attack so that they have a higher chance of a kill. Hope that's not too off topic, suggesting how to make hated scenarios less hateable!

Arras and Mons 18 were both designed to be the hardest 2 scenarios ever to make it onto the Internet!!! The reason they aren't artillery, rather "Tac Bombers" (w/ missile trait) is so that you can launch actual shells! (That and even a 1-ammo artillery would be wayyyyy to cheap for its power - unless cost 10k, which is quite unreasonable) - Why not just gas the artillery? The increased attack is so that -8 to most infantry will become -10, killing them (the main thing they were designed for).

- BNC

[nikivdd]

From the official content, I didn't play the Warsaw uprisal scenario for historical and family reasons.
Also, the whole "gas" thing gives me the shivers. I know, Panzer Corps is a game, but still i have my reservations.

[ThorHa]

My new most hated - Prokhorovka 43 East.

I am just in the middle of the scenario and don´t fully get it . Turn 13, attack on fort 167 just begun, middle VHs conquered, counterattacks from northeast and far southeast adwarfed, the northwestern pocket liberated, in 2 turns 2 battlegroups center and southwest will converge on the outskirts of Prokhorovka. I will settle for a MV nevertheless if the attack would force too many losses.

Although I admittedly play with 8 Tigers (1 aux hero, 1 core, 6 SE core) my fighter screen still contains 4 Bf 109, With 2 more Fw 190 and additional to the 2 Aux 3 AA (2 mobile, one 88) I enjoy clear air superiority since turn 2, lots and lots of enemy air was shot down by well positioned AA already at the moment of attack. I had exactly one fighter reduced from 12 to 5 by 2 unexpected T90 in the notheastern counterattack at the bridges southeast.

I find Prokhorovka much easier than Oboyan. Really.

Regards,
Thorsten

[ThorHa]

From the official content, I didn't play the Warsaw uprisal scenario for historical and family reasons.

Warsaw is a bit beyond the borderline, I will skip it as well. Its inclusion might have something to do with the lead designer being Russsian?

Ducks, covers and runs,
Thorsten

[BiteNibbleChomp]

Also, the whole "gas" thing gives me the shivers. I know, Panzer Corps is a game, but still i have my reservations.

I'm guessing you are reffering to my WWI mod? If so, the only time you are given a gas unit is in Poland 15, otherwise you don't have any need to use it, just there for the fun of it. I have seen from others' experiences that it is only really good for blowing up THAT ONE UNIT holding the last victory point.

- BNC

[LandMarine47]

Personally, in Warsaw, I strive to capture as many poles, so they might have a chance to survive the war..... I've last veteran troops doing this, even a Posnan 39 inf. Died trying to capture prisoners.

[captainjack]

I find Prokhorovka much easier than Oboyan. Really

I can restore balance to the universe because I prefer Oboyan to Prokhorovka. There's no accounting for taste, eh?

The good thing about "worst scenario" and "best scenario" discussions is seeing what other people like and dislike. Apart from feeling awfully clever when I find someone has trouble with a scenario I can manage, I sometimes find out that my most hated scenario was difficult just because I wasn't thinking hard enough, or had missed something. The changes over time can be interesting - some of my favourites were in the most hated list not that long ago.

[BiteNibbleChomp]

I find Prokhorovka much easier than Oboyan. Really

I can restore balance to the universe because I prefer Oboyan to Prokhorovka. There's no accounting for taste, eh?

I prefer Oboyan (though it does need 2 more turns - I would have made it to Kursk Armoury with those!), thereby screwing the balance. Then again, I find mons18 to be fun (I don't get why people don't enjoy those '70s-arcade-style scenarios, where you smash a horde.) - most hate that thing.

- BNC

[JimmyC]

I've only played through to end of GC40, so i expect to have a lot more hated ones in the future, but to date my most hated scenario is Calais. The reason is that about mid-way through the scenario, after achieving air supremacy, 2 overstrengthed fighters (a hurrican and spitfire i think) suddenly appeared out of nowhere and killed my 3 star, 13 overstrengthed +1 D hero Junker. It felt like a really cheesy scripted event.

[Dragoon.]

I've only played through to end of GC40, so i expect to have a lot more hated ones in the future, but to date my most hated scenario is Calais. The reason is that about mid-way through the scenario, after achieving air supremacy, 2 overstrengthed fighters (a hurrican and spitfire i think) suddenly appeared out of nowhere and killed my 3 star, 13 overstrengthed +1 D hero Junker. It felt like a really cheesy scripted event.

Enemy airforce now comes in waves, especially to overcome the problem with the human player archiving already very easily air superiority and start to behave in responsibly by not longer protecting his assets. Now you need to fly cover and escort most of the time. Though on some maps you can already guess where they will spawn. Like on Calais (they are coming over the channel) or Malta scenario.
I learn this lesson the hard way like you. Enemy airforce is no longer a complete joke like it was in the previous Panzer General games.

[JimmyC]

Yes, i thought it might be trying to teach me to never leave my tactical bombers unescorted. It just felt cheesy as i had never experienced anything like that before. Also, after the first plane attacked i still had 7 hp left - so i thought for sure he would survive the 2nd hit by the 11 O/S Spitfire...

[ThorHa]

There's no accounting for taste, eh?

No insult intended, but it´s not purely taste. Prokhorovka has several distinctive advantages:

1) The open terrain makes it extremely easy to maintain battlegroup cohesion

2) The scripted masses of tanks make it easy to attack by local defense where you want to set it up. E.g. the tank group in the southeast corner will attack if you conquer the city compley halfway between your start and Prokhorovka. The small battle group at fort 65 will stay put except you come close. The large tank group mid northeast will try to conquer your VH mid southeast behind the river. All considerable Soviet forces to the east of the river in the northwest corner will stay put until your northwestern group tries to cross the river. Etc.

3) The two large and dangerous tank groups notheast and nothwest of Prokhorovka will have a predicable behaviour If both run into your respective pincers, the northwest group will try to close in the gap between Prokhorovka and the river, the northeast group will try to flank you and then go for the nearest single city hex VH.

All of that make the battle so completely predicatble that it´s my favourite meanwhile.

Regards,
Thorsten

[captainjack]

ThorHa,

Thanks for the comments. I was wondering what approach you used. As I mentioned above, sometimes I dislike scenarios because I am missing something, and it looks like I was trying to do too many things at once.

I just had a bad run on the tail end of 43 East (playing when tired isn't a good plan), so am planning to restart at 42 to try out some slightly different tactics. If all goes well I might even end up changing my mind about Prokhorovka.