Thru the Maginot: Strategic Europa (aar stopped)

[pk867]

On Even Germany collects 65 PP's / turn. On Axis Minor advantage, Germany receives 68. Yes it is small.
Overall if the game played to turn 105, it is 315 PP's more than an even game. So spend wisely.

[supermax]

On Even Germany collects 65 PP's / turn. On Axis Minor advantage, Germany receives 68. Yes it is small.
Overall if the game played to turn 105, it is 315 PP's more than an even game. So spend wisely.

who said I was wise?

[supermax]

[supermax]

[Plaid]

Strange moves on the allied end. Sacrifising good mech and infantry units just to hold this pointless Verdun forts looks like Great War reenactment.
Germans are effectively killing their own good units while attacking forts, and even if they make a breach, it is only one hex. I can't see any reason to put non-garrison units into these forts. Some people even evacuate garrisons to use them elsewhere.

And retreating to Seine on the first turn of case yellow always ends bad for allies. I bet France will surrender with half of their troops alive. (unless you reject armistice).

Looks like you have very good start over here, good luck!

[Morris]

Strange moves on the allied end. Sacrifising good mech and infantry units just to hold this pointless Verdun forts looks like Great War reenactment.
Germans are effectively killing their own good units while attacking forts, and even if they make a breach, it is only one hex. I can't see any reason to put non-garrison units into these forts. Some people even evacuate garrisons to use them elsewhere.

And retreating to Seine on the first turn of case yellow always ends bad for allies. I bet France will surrender with half of their troops alive. (unless you reject armistice).

Looks like you have very good start over here, good luck!

I agree with Plaid ! The Allies really made huge mistake of defence in France . Since there will be all fair turns , Paris will fall soon . BTW , why the canadians transport have no escort ? gamble or suiside ? I think maybe you don't need the minor advantage to achive an Axis victory ! hehehe

[supermax]

Strange moves on the allied end. Sacrifising good mech and infantry units just to hold this pointless Verdun forts looks like Great War reenactment.
Germans are effectively killing their own good units while attacking forts, and even if they make a breach, it is only one hex. I can't see any reason to put non-garrison units into these forts. Some people even evacuate garrisons to use them elsewhere.

And retreating to Seine on the first turn of case yellow always ends bad for allies. I bet France will surrender with half of their troops alive. (unless you reject armistice).

Looks like you have very good start over here, good luck!

I agree with Plaid ! The Allies really made huge mistake of defence in France . Since there will be all fair turns , Paris will fall soon . BTW , why the canadians transport have no escort ? gamble or suiside ? I think maybe you don't need the minor advantage to achive an Axis victory ! hehehe

I did the turn but didnt post it yet, but they do have an escort, and a rather large one at that. You'll see in the next screen captures.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

With so early fall of France it should be possble to consider a Sealion.

[supermax]

[supermax]

With so early fall of France it should be possble to consider a Sealion.

Well, i wanted FRance to fall early, but now considering conquering the damn place. There are no brits or almost none, whats there been neutralized. French offensive power also neutralized, my other offensive planned for next turn will not be hampered...

No I may want to see what Carlos has in store for me in Casablanca. I am considering the Spanish thing, you never know I never played against him he may not have reinforced Casablanca? We'll see next turn. If he did, I am storming paris. If there are no indications he did, well... Anyway i have time there is no stress to finish this early as my only other option after that i will already be on it in Yougoslavia.

As to sealion, I am done with that Gambit until the game changes in a more favorable way. Its highly risky now, even the brits get so many troops that its hard to even cope. Not much to gain except a weak 41 Barbarossa and lots of wasted oil.

And when you take it the brits are almost hunindered, since you cant reach Canada in any reasonable way.

[Morris]

With so early fall of France it should be possble to consider a Sealion.

As to sealion, I am done with that Gambit until the game changes in a more favorable way. Its highly risky now, even the brits get so many troops that its hard to even cope. Not much to gain except a weak 41 Barbarossa and lots of wasted oil.

And when you take it the brits are almost hunindered, since you cant reach Canada in any reasonable way.

It is a sane & wise decision !

[shawkhan]

Yes, I myself have commented on the lack of detrimental effect from the conquest of the British Isles. With the nice interplay of ASW and subs in the game now, it is a shame that the convoys, the lifeblood of the British empire, should be of so little value. I think the convoys should be all over the North Atlantic to more realistically model their importance, while the intrinsic Br production should be much lower. That would lead to a real Battle of the Atlantic. Not to mention the Murmansk convoy.

[Plaid]

I agree aswell. Like the approach in Commander the Great War, where convoys are probably 80% of UK PP revenue.
If Germans somehow manage to sink all these convoys, Britain will have negative PP income (units require PP upkeep in that game), so soon enough they will not be able even to repair their damaged units.

In GS on the contrary there is a big question if convoy hunting worth it at all (and vice versa for allies - is it worth to protect convoys at all).
I think first of all normal PP income from UK overseas territories (Canada, Middle East) should be removed completely and replaced by convoys.

Ideally same should be done with oil (but I don't think it is possible) and to some degree - with manpower (also don't think this is possible).

[Morris]

I agree aswell. Like the approach in Commander the Great War, where convoys are probably 80% of UK PP revenue.
If Germans somehow manage to sink all these convoys, Britain will have negative PP income (units require PP upkeep in that game), so soon enough they will not be able even to repair their damaged units.

In GS on the contrary there is a big question if convoy hunting worth it at all (and vice versa for allies - is it worth to protect convoys at all).
I think first of all normal PP income from UK overseas territories (Canada, Middle East) should be removed completely and replaced by convoys.

Ideally same should be done with oil (but I don't think it is possible) and to some degree - with manpower (also don't think this is possible).

It sounds reasonable !

[Peter Stauffenberg]

The UK income and convoy sizes have been the same since the first version of vanilla CEAW and through GS as well. Changing the convoy sizes haven't been discussed much before. So I wonder what is new now.

3 convoys spawn every 4 turns. From about 1942 you can expect the convoys to be from 50-150 PP's dependent upon war effort. Let's say the average size is 10PP's per convoy.

That is 300 PP's every 4 turns = 75 PP's per turn. That is quite considerable.

You have the northern lend lease going to Russia, the southern going to USA and the central going to UK. So there is a lot of PP's being sent each turn that the Germans can sink. With GS v3.0 the subs do a lot more damage on the convoys (up to about 30 PP's per hit).

If Britain loses their home territory they won't have much production left except convoys. Maybe 15-20 PP's per turn.

The Allied player will really notice that the Wolfpacks keep sinking their convoys. The build up of new units is much slower. It's certainly possible to drop the UK base income and increase the convoy size. However, it can be a bit tricky finding the correct balance on that change. Less value on UK income means less PP's gained by capturing these cities.

It could even be possible to increase the Russian on board production (e. g. Kiev, Kharkov, Minsk etc.) and slowly drop this and increase the Siberian cities instead. This to simulate factory transfer. However it can't be a fixed transfer happening at start of Barbarossa + x turns because then the players will focus on capturing the city before that time to prevent the transfer. Transfer should be voluntary with a command (like 1 PP possible per turn). That requires a new button or key command to use for flagging the city PP to transfer.

[Cybvep]

However, it can be a bit tricky finding the correct balance on that change. Less value on UK income means less PP's gained by capturing these cities.

I agree. It would actually make Sea Lion a much less desirable option.

It could even be possible to increase the Russian on board production (e. g. Kiev, Kharkov, Minsk etc.) and slowly drop this and increase the Siberian cities instead. This to simulate factory transfer. However it can't be a fixed transfer happening at start of Barbarossa + x turns because then the players will focus on capturing the city before that time to prevent the transfer.

I don't see a problem here. If it's automatic, that will mean less micromanagement. Also, I think that it's good that the Allied player is motivated to hold these cities for a while. It's sort of the point.

[pk867]

I guess my games have below average convoys. I rarely see convoys near 100 until mid to late 44 when you do not have the time to get the units to the front.

So in 45' they will be wasted.

[Kragdob]

I guess my games have below average convoys. I rarely see convoys near 100 until mid to late 44 when you do not have the time to get the units to the front.

So in 45' they will be wasted.

Mine too. In game with Gog I even tried to protect the one that had 100PPs (and failed). My experience is that average covoy is (by 1943, after that I don't have ideas what to spend remaining Allied PPs on) around 50-60. Giving the fact that in 1942/1943 there is only one convoy and before they are smaller so I say 60 is working average. Per 4 turns it gives 15 PPs per turn for UK. With UK income around 60 PPs this gives 25% MORE than UK gets without them.

Maybe Convoys should 'transport' war effort? For UK it would be e.g.: base=30% + rest (70%) possible through convoys, for US e.g.: base = 90%, rest through convoys, USSR : base 70%, rest through convoys.

[JimR]

With so early fall of France it should be possble to consider a Sealion.

Well, i wanted FRance to fall early, but now considering conquering the damn place. There are no brits or almost none, whats there been neutralized. French offensive power also neutralized, my other offensive planned for next turn will not be hampered...

No I may want to see what Carlos has in store for me in Casablanca. I am considering the Spanish thing, you never know I never played against him he may not have reinforced Casablanca? We'll see next turn. If he did, I am storming paris. If there are no indications he did, well... Anyway i have time there is no stress to finish this early as my only other option after that i will already be on it in Yougoslavia.

As to sealion, I am done with that Gambit until the game changes in a more favorable way. Its highly risky now, even the brits get so many troops that its hard to even cope. Not much to gain except a weak 41 Barbarossa and lots of wasted oil.

And when you take it the brits are almost hunindered, since you cant reach Canada in any reasonable way.

It's encouraging to see France on the ropes so early -- there is hope yet for Axis in CEAW-GS when the Axis player uses imaginative strategies. Most of the time, when playing the Axis, I find that chances of victory (= survival) seem all gone by mid-1942.

[supermax]

By mid 42, ill be in an interesting position if i can do what i am Planning...