Anti tank tactic

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Ranger
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Posts: 188
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:24 am

Re: Anti tank tactic

Post by Ranger »

jcb989 wrote:
gortwillsaveus wrote:While I might disagree about someone rolling all trucks and suppressed units right in front of the enemy without a single shot being taken,..
if it affects both sides,..well then,..it's probably good enough.
I think the shot should be taken if those trucks are loaded with another unit... wonder if they thought of that
Most trucks have canvass covered tops. Certainly a loaded truck is a better target of opportunity than an empty one, but, unless it's towing something, how would anyone know? (The game will tell you if you highlight the enemy unit, but isn't that "gaming the system"?)

Soldiers will engage whatever they perceive as their most immediate threat at that immediate instant (not over a span of 10's of seconds or minutes). An enemy truck suddenly coming around the corner, is an immediate threat to me and the tank I'm sitting in so I will engage it. I'm not omniscient etc, I don't know what, or who, is or isn't in the truck: is it empty? is it loaded with 2000lbs of explosives? Is it loaded with mean, pissed off, angry, anti-tank RPG toting bad guys? Maybe his buddies don't know where I am and he's going to tell them so they can come and kill me?

In the real world military, "Rules of Engagement" (ROE) dictate what a soldier is supposed to (and not supposed to) shoot at, with what, and when etc. In real life, ROEs can vary between being very granular or being very loose. They are usually somewhere between the two extremes of "Free fire, Fire at will, kill anything that moves" and "don't return fire and withdraw" (think painted white APC's and blue beret U.N. Peacekeepers).

BA has two very simple, static ROE settings:
1) Fire at will, at any enemy target that comes within your line of sight, that comes within range of the "target specific weapons" you have (meaning only engage tanks with anti-tank weapons even if it's an "anti-tank peashooter")

2) Hide. Do not engage enemy. Defend your position against actual enemy assault and direct fire only at enemy unit assaulting your position, then switch to "Fire at will" ROE.

I guess my point is that, when you consider BA's static ROE options, the game does a pretty good job of replicating what most disciplined soldiers will do in real world situations, when given one of the two BA ROEs options.

And I guess, my other point, is that the way to address the "should my tank engage an enemy truck with a reaction shot or wait to see if something bigger is coming etc" type scenario, within BA, is with, maybe, the ability to augment the two default ROE settings with customizable granular ROE settings for different units and different situations. I can see how the development of this could be problematic, but I think it would be better than trying to figure out how to get the game AI to somehow automatically anticipate how you would want a unit to take a reaction shot in every situation. I'd venture to guess that this is unrealistic and would require super computer processing power to give everyone satisfactory results etc.

It would be very nice if BA ROEs were granular and customizable. This would be especially helpful in setting up ambushes etc. As it is now, an ambush will often initiate too early (before enemy units enter the kill zone), or initiate too late (after they've already safely passed through and exited the kill zone).

sorry for rambling and being so verbose... (I'm working on that.) :oops:

cheers,

Thomas
jcb989
Colonel - Fallschirmjäger
Colonel - Fallschirmjäger
Posts: 1423
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:02 am
Location: Bradenton, Florida

Re: Anti tank tactic

Post by jcb989 »

Ranger wrote: Most trucks have canvass covered tops. Certainly a loaded truck is a better target of opportunity than an empty one, but, unless it's towing something, how would anyone know? (The game will tell you if you highlight the enemy unit, but isn't that "gaming the system"?)
Good point. Kinda a duuuh moment on my part in my opinion, lol
Ranger
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Posts: 188
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:24 am

Re: Anti tank tactic

Post by Ranger »

jcb989 wrote:
Ranger wrote: Most trucks have canvass covered tops. Certainly a loaded truck is a better target of opportunity than an empty one, but, unless it's towing something, how would anyone know? (The game will tell you if you highlight the enemy unit, but isn't that "gaming the system"?)
Good point. Kinda a duuuh moment on my part in my opinion, lol
You didn't have a duuuh moment... your example may have been problematic but your point about wanting to have the option to evaluate and prioritize target of opportunity reaction shots based perceived values was understood and valid.

I think one thing I didn't mention in my last post was how range and proximity affect can ROE and determining what is/isn't an immediate threat. For instance, a truck from 50 meters away, speeding towards your tank versus a truck 500 meters away crossing a stretch of open terrain that you have covered with enfilading field of fire. The first example perhaps being more related to the original topic, of sacrificing trucks as an anti-tank tactic, than the second.
gortwillsaveus
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Posts: 583
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:19 pm

Re: Anti tank tactic

Post by gortwillsaveus »

gortwillsaveus wrote:Well it seems that after the upgrade to Husky patch,...that opportunity fire has been, ever so slightly, modified.
I noticed that suppressed units don't draw enemy fire, even if you roll up on them.
This seems also be the case for all other suppressed troops.

Although I can't be sure yet,.....I think I've seen some other anomalies where opportunity fire has been unpredictable.
Any one else notice the change after upgrading to the Husky patch?

See my post of a few minutes ago for an example where the change affected a very valid situation from happening.
viewtopic.php?f=87&t=40926&start=20

You trim one side of the mustache with an eye closed,..you get a crooked mustache.
Ranger
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Posts: 188
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:24 am

Re: Anti tank tactic

Post by Ranger »

Ranger wrote: ........
2) Hide. Do not engage enemy. Defend your position against actual enemy assault and direct fire only at enemy unit assaulting your position, then switch to "Fire at will" ROE.
.......
Since posting my comments about BA's two "ROE"s, I've discovered that the description of my understanding of "Hold Fire" (what I called "Hide") is in fact completely wrong. Either something has changed in the game (possible) or I hadn't yet played the game enough to know what I was talking about (probably more likely).

:oops:
My words are crunchy but a bit over-cooked, and not as tasty as I would like them to be. I will drown my words with gravy or ketchup the next time I have to eat them.

Anyway, since realizing BA ROEs don't work quite the way I thought they did, it makes one of my comments/suggestions even more desirable:
Ranger wrote: "It would be very nice if BA ROEs were granular and customizable. This would be especially helpful in setting up ambushes etc. As it is now, an ambush will often initiate too early (before enemy units enter the kill zone), or initiate too late (after they've already safely passed through and exited the kill zone)."
cheers,

Thomas
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