indestructible

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brettz123
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
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Re: indestructible

Post by brettz123 »

balone wrote:
brettz123 wrote:
johndoe2 wrote:Have you actually read my post? That's all I'm gonna say...
I think what he is saying is that if you had suppressed him enough with artillery and strat bombers and then attacked with your best tanks first this probably wouldn't have been an issue in the first place.

I don't see any artillery in range (though to be fair the Wespe in the bottom right could have a range 1 hero) and I don't see any strat bombers anywhere so your picture leaves the idea that you did not suppress the tank at all before attacking. Then I have to wonder why you didn't attack with your best tanks first. There is no benefit to attacking with them last.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I see three tiger II's and one tiger I. Two
of the tiger II's are SE so it appears that he did attack with his best
units. IF, preattack, the soviet tank had 4 strength and no ammo then
I think johndoe has a valid point. Surrounded with no ammo? Come on!
My bad I thought the two cross hairs were on the SE Tiger IIs.

Now back to the discussion. It is not stated that the unit was strength 4 when the attacks started and that seems highly unlikely considering it has been attacked by 3 Tiger IIs and a Tiger I. So I think that is something we don't have to worry about too much. So I don't find the situation that ridicules. If you want to get a unit to surrender put some suppression on it!

The other issue would be if you could just surround the IS tanks and get them to surrender when their ammo runs out it would make them even easier to kill. The AI is bad enough that being able to do this would make the game even easier (which I consider to be a bad thing). As it is you can easily just use a strat bomber to get the ammo down to 1 shot and then keep it from being supplied with some tanks until you destroy it.
Straikku
Private First Class - Opel Blitz
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Re: indestructible

Post by Straikku »

Note the weather as well, it´s snowing which sometimes allows this kind of "heroic last stand" situation, though most of the time with well dug in infantry. But still...this a rather extreme situation :shock:
balone
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
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Re: indestructible

Post by balone »

Some good points Brettz123, Johndoe didn't do himself any
favors by not suppressing first. Don't know how many times I
Thought to myself "should of suppressed him first" when I figured
I had an easy kill. I would still like to know if the IS was
full strength pre-combat and at what point he ran out of ammo.
dragos
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Re: indestructible

Post by dragos »

Aren't heavy tanks almost immune to regular artillery? Some very experienced strategic bomber I think it is more effective.
brettz123
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
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Re: indestructible

Post by brettz123 »

dragos wrote:Aren't heavy tanks almost immune to regular artillery? Some very experienced strategic bomber I think it is more effective.
Not really immune but you are going to need 3-4 pieces to get even a moderate amount of suppression. But yes the strat bomber will really help out with this. You really need 2 of them. 1 should start the turn already on top of the tank allowing you to get 2 attacks from strat bombers on him. At the end of the day there really isn't a great way to kill off an IS-2 which in my opinion is fairly realisti.
Kamerer
2nd Lieutenant - Elite Panzer IVF/2
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Re: indestructible

Post by Kamerer »

dragos wrote:Aren't heavy tanks almost immune to regular artillery? Some very experienced strategic bomber I think it is more effective.
They are very resistant, but not immune. And there is a lot of difference between the greener IS-2's of 1944 and those in Berlin later. A good use of the artillery on them is this - dedicate two experienced artillery pieces to hit them this won't put much suppression on, but the purpose is to get them "buttoned up" so the next strike is with tactical air. A Ju-87G will then slice off a goodly amount of strength, and two shots from two overstrength/experienced tanks will finish the unit or make it trivial the next turn.

I find only minor suppression will leave one of these still able to damage your tanks, but enough to negate any return damage on aerial attack. Prior artillery/air prep make the work easier. There are different ways to use tactical air vs. strategic as brettz123 said, you can develop the style that works better for your tactical habits.
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