Kiev 43

[ceandersen]

My core has about 10-12 infantry units. Every time I get an SE infantry unit, I upgrade it to a grenadier. My core is always at least 20-25% infantry. I would also recommend increasing the amount of your tactical bombers. I have four ME-410's, and they are not only useful in finishing off Russian fighters my FW190s wound, but with experience and overstrength are effective at damaging (and even severely weakening) Russian armored units to allow them to be easily finished off by German armor or even heavy infantry. I also have six FW 190's. I also have one HE-177 strategic bomber, but because of core restrictions, I have not been able to use it in a long time. Another very powerful unit that I recommend you get more of in your core is the Elefant. They are superb against enemy armor units, especially when they are over-strength. I had four of these on the battlefield at Kiev. I only have one towed arty piece (a Mars 21). The rest are all mobile guns (four Brumbars, two captured SU-122s, and three armored Sigs (?) The Brumbar is one of my favorite weapons in the game. It can survive repeated enemy attacks with little damage because of its strong defense, and it packs a punch in its role as a supporting artillery piece. I have about six Panthers and six Tigers, and no other armor except for the Elefants.

Just keep experimenting with the core. When you get find a balance that suits your playing skills and strengths, you will take Kiev43!

I'm impressed by the strength of your core! From this point of view I think that miracle could finish Kiev with a DV. or not?
I guess I was not wrong in Kiev, but in all previous battles because my core is very weak compared to yours. But I promised myself that would play in 'straight', ie not redo scenarios. My limit is two attempts. Then I'll move to 44 with my best result of these two attempts, but I continar Kieve playing to learn. It is an amazing challenge!

[ceandersen]

As the DLC continue later into the war, more and more the reality of the historical position is brought home to the player. There will be times where decisive victory seems impossible, which would not be ahistorical at all, considering the events of 1944 and 1945 on the Eastern Front. In addition to this historical difficulty, we wanted to have content that continued to challenge players who may not only have brought their CORE all the way from 1939, but may also have even more extensive experience with the game.

If some scenarios are too difficult, as they sometimes can be, there are several possible approaches. Replaying a scenario is always an option, using the time to learn new strategy. At the start of any DLC, there is always an option to lower, or increase, the general difficulty setting. Sometimes, especially on certain scenarios, sometimes you just have to admit defeat. Think of it as trading ground for time. Instead of engaging in a battle you know you can't win, just skip the battle by losing the scenario without even risking your forces.

The DLC, and Panzer Corps Campaigns as a rule, are designed so that failure is not necessarily the end of the world, but sometimes a necessary evil, as retreat often was during this period of the war. For details on which scenarios can continue your campaign even with a loss, this guide is a good reference.
viewtopic.php?f=121&t=29134

In the long run, challenging scenarios are rewarding goals to revisit and eventually overcome, perhaps for a future play through.

That's what I was asking to heaven! Thank you for indicating the topic!!
But my question remains, the campaign of 44 starts without any credit prestige? It is correct?

About the historical difficulties reflected in games are sensational, I can perceive and experience as if I were there. Congratulations to the research team, as well as for all the rest of the team.

[ceandersen]

In kiev 43, last scenario of 43, the battle is very hard to achieve the main objectives, but still I managed a victory decissiva. And each town the more you catch it yields only 50 prestiges. That is, do not pay a replacement power unit. So I do not think it's worth taking cities that are not the main goal.

This is your big mistake if you arent taking non-victory towns and cities you are losing out on thousands of points of prestige throughout the entire game.

But I'm go behind all cities and goals, but sometimes the cost of losses is greater than the bonus you can receive for capturing them, right?

[brettz123]

In kiev 43, last scenario of 43, the battle is very hard to achieve the main objectives, but still I managed a victory decissiva. And each town the more you catch it yields only 50 prestiges. That is, do not pay a replacement power unit. So I do not think it's worth taking cities that are not the main goal.

This is your big mistake if you arent taking non-victory towns and cities you are losing out on thousands of points of prestige throughout the entire game.

But I'm go behind all cities and goals, but sometimes the cost of losses is greater than the bonus you can receive for capturing them, right?

Not in my experience. Non victory cities should only have an infantry unit in them if that. You should have several small groups of two combat units and an artillery to take these cities at no losses to yourself. Also if you don't take these cities you will never get the captured units which really help and are worth a lot of prestige.

[ceandersen]

On FM, the computer gets 150% prestige. The major source of the computer's prestige is the initial prestige and per turn income. In Kiev43, the AI starts with 1500 prestige and 200 per turn, all multiplied by 1.5. Of course it also gets some income from capturing hexes, but that is a relatively small percentage of its total prestige component.

To my knowledge, capturing the AI's flags does not reduce its prestige (same mechanics, in MP if you capture someone's hex it doesn't reduce the player's prestige). I think the only way to reduce prestige is to use a STR bomber on a VH city hex, but the amount is negligible. If the AI is spawning recon units, it just means you've killed off all the IS-1/SU-85 that it can spawn and it ran out of prestige to buy more.

I could understand what you mean, and it's amazing how the Soviet Union was stronger this time of campaign. But I do not understand the acronyms: MP and FM, sorry could clarify for me?

[ceandersen]

Not in my experience. Non victory cities should only have an infantry unit in them if that. You should have several small groups of two combat units and an artillery to take these cities at no losses to yourself. Also if you don't take these cities you will never get the captured units which really help and are worth a lot of prestige.

But even using support units sometimes losses are not worth it. But I understood what you meant.

[Zhivago]

My core has about 10-12 infantry units. Every time I get an SE infantry unit, I upgrade it to a grenadier. My core is always at least 20-25% infantry. I would also recommend increasing the amount of your tactical bombers. I have four ME-410's, and they are not only useful in finishing off Russian fighters my FW190s wound, but with experience and overstrength are effective at damaging (and even severely weakening) Russian armored units to allow them to be easily finished off by German armor or even heavy infantry. I also have six FW 190's. I also have one HE-177 strategic bomber, but because of core restrictions, I have not been able to use it in a long time. Another very powerful unit that I recommend you get more of in your core is the Elefant. They are superb against enemy armor units, especially when they are over-strength. I had four of these on the battlefield at Kiev. I only have one towed arty piece (a Mars 21). The rest are all mobile guns (four Brumbars, two captured SU-122s, and three armored Sigs (?) The Brumbar is one of my favorite weapons in the game. It can survive repeated enemy attacks with little damage because of its strong defense, and it packs a punch in its role as a supporting artillery piece. I have about six Panthers and six Tigers, and no other armor except for the Elefants.

Just keep experimenting with the core. When you get find a balance that suits your playing skills and strengths, you will take Kiev43!

I'm impressed by the strength of your core! From this point of view I think that miracle could finish Kiev with a DV. or not?
I guess I was not wrong in Kiev, but in all previous battles because my core is very weak compared to yours. But I promised myself that would play in 'straight', ie not redo scenarios. My limit is two attempts. Then I'll move to 44 with my best result of these two attempts, but I continar Kieve playing to learn. It is an amazing challenge!

I've been playing my current campaign (i'm a few scenarios into 1945 now) since 1939. There is no substitute for experienced units. An experienced weaker unit can often defeat a stronger, less experienced one. I like incorporating lots of infantry and arty, especially supporting arty units, starting with the StugB, and later the StuH42, and then the Brumbar (which is an outstanding unit). I like heavy armor for breakthroughs, but infantry, arty, and key tactical bombing are a big key to the game.

[brettz123]

Not in my experience. Non victory cities should only have an infantry unit in them if that. You should have several small groups of two combat units and an artillery to take these cities at no losses to yourself. Also if you don't take these cities you will never get the captured units which really help and are worth a lot of prestige.

But even using support units sometimes losses are not worth it. But I understood what you meant.

If you are taking losses against a single unit in a city you are playing the game wrong. Give it some practice and you will see what I am talking about.

[Zhivago]

Not in my experience. Non victory cities should only have an infantry unit in them if that. You should have several small groups of two combat units and an artillery to take these cities at no losses to yourself. Also if you don't take these cities you will never get the captured units which really help and are worth a lot of prestige.

But even using support units sometimes losses are not worth it. But I understood what you meant.

If you are taking losses against a single unit in a city you are playing the game wrong. Give it some practice and you will see what I am talking about.

You have to understand the mechanics of entrenchment and the defense values of the units that are protecting cities. Almost always, these "non-victory" hexes will have an infantry unit in them, or an anti-tank gun. The best way to handle an assault on any city in the game is to soften up the defending unit with artillery, and then use a grenadier or pionere unit to go in for the kill. Also, understand that you get an attack bonus when you have two or more units attacking a single hex at a time (because the defender is theoretically facing attack from more than one direction). Auxiliary units (non core units) are usually not very strong in the game and unless a Russian unit is weakened, you should not expect an auxiliary unit to be attacking a full-strength Russian unit that has not been suppressed by artillery file and expect a positive outcome. Roll up a Brumbar and another artillery piece next to each other and move one of the artillery units next to the city hex you are attacking. Of course, the artillery should be shielded on its flanks by armor or other units. However, the defending Russian infantry unit can't do anything to a Brumbar or even an StuH42, and if tried, the other arty piece supporting it would get a pre-emptive, defensive shot first. In most instances, if the AI can see you have two arty pieces supporting each other, they are not going to attack the artillery because of this reason (unless they are using heavy armored units). It just takes a lot of practice to know what kind of assault "team" to use to approach each city. But take advantage of arty suppression, as well as attacking the hex with two or more units simultaneously.

[brettz123]

Very good analysis from zhivago. What I use for taking non victory cities is a "unit" consisting of a pioniere, grenadier, and wurfrahmen. Works pretty well. You should also remember that a lot of non victory cities do not have anything in them.

[Zhivago]

Very good analysis from zhivago. What I use for taking non victory cities is a "unit" consisting of a pioniere, grenadier, and wurfrahmen. Works pretty well. You should also remember that a lot of non victory cities do not have anything in them.

This is also true--there are a lot of empty cities. However, as long as a city hex remains in Russian hands, the AI can spawn new units from that city. As such, aside from the prestige points, it is good to eliminate those cities just so the AI can't spawn new equipment out of them. In Kiev, I think it especially makes sense to do this with the Russian held cities closest to Kiev. If the AI has to spawn new units from a city farther away, it will give your units more breathing room and time to re-supply or re-build before the next wave of attacks start.

[ceandersen]

I've been playing my current campaign (i'm a few scenarios into 1945 now) since 1939. There is no substitute for experienced units. An experienced weaker unit can often defeat a stronger, less experienced one. I like incorporating lots of infantry and arty, especially supporting arty units, starting with the StugB, and later the StuH42, and then the Brumbar (which is an outstanding unit). I like heavy armor for breakthroughs, but infantry, arty, and key tactical bombing are a big key to the game.

When I finish this war, as far as my strength will resist ... I'll start again and watch the tips and units that passed me!

[ceandersen]

If you are taking losses against a single unit in a city you are playing the game wrong. Give it some practice and you will see what I am talking about.

I think that from what other players have gone from experience, I have very few units. So I can move few units to capture cities not objective. I'm gaining experience for my next campaign ...

[ceandersen]

You have to understand the mechanics of entrenchment and the defense values of the units that are protecting cities. Almost always, these "non-victory" hexes will have an infantry unit in them, or an anti-tank gun. The best way to handle an assault on any city in the game is to soften up the defending unit with artillery, and then use a grenadier or pionere unit to go in for the kill. Also, understand that you get an attack bonus when you have two or more units attacking a single hex at a time (because the defender is theoretically facing attack from more than one direction). Auxiliary units (non core units) are usually not very strong in the game and unless a Russian unit is weakened, you should not expect an auxiliary unit to be attacking a full-strength Russian unit that has not been suppressed by artillery file and expect a positive outcome. Roll up a Brumbar and another artillery piece next to each other and move one of the artillery units next to the city hex you are attacking. Of course, the artillery should be shielded on its flanks by armor or other units. However, the defending Russian infantry unit can't do anything to a Brumbar or even an StuH42, and if tried, the other arty piece supporting it would get a pre-emptive, defensive shot first. In most instances, if the AI can see you have two arty pieces supporting each other, they are not going to attack the artillery because of this reason (unless they are using heavy armored units). It just takes a lot of practice to know what kind of assault "team" to use to approach each city. But take advantage of arty suppression, as well as attacking the hex with two or more units simultaneously.

As I already commented: I think that from what other players have gone from experience, I have very few units. So I can move few units to capture cities not objective.
So if I move a lot of units (at least 3 suggested that an infantry plus a support unit and an artillery) defalcate I'll fight for my main object. So I'm acting this way, the small team I have.
But I need something know in attack bonus, I can pull a second auxiliary unit that she will bring the same bonus as a unit experienced when performing the attack with my main unit (probably a pioneer)?

[ceandersen]

Very good analysis from zhivago. What I use for taking non victory cities is a "unit" consisting of a pioniere, grenadier, and wurfrahmen. Works pretty well. You should also remember that a lot of non victory cities do not have anything in them.

Sometimes in Kiev, I backed a goal for an enemy tank could go into town and then the infantry, which was behind the tanks and artillery could re-take the city. But the difference is impressive attacking a tank in open area or in a city. Sometimes enemy units came to surrender with a single attack! Now I understand better, the account of the experiences of you, is that I see how this strategy is great!

[brettz123]

If you are taking losses against a single unit in a city you are playing the game wrong. Give it some practice and you will see what I am talking about.

I think that from what other players have gone from experience, I have very few units. So I can move few units to capture cities not objective. I'm gaining experience for my next campaign ...

Do you have left over slots for deployment in the beginning of the scenario? A lot of people have units they cannot deploy but they still deploy as many units as possible. If you haven't posted your CORE please do so and we can tell you what we think about it!

[Zhivago]

You have to understand the mechanics of entrenchment and the defense values of the units that are protecting cities. Almost always, these "non-victory" hexes will have an infantry unit in them, or an anti-tank gun. The best way to handle an assault on any city in the game is to soften up the defending unit with artillery, and then use a grenadier or pionere unit to go in for the kill. Also, understand that you get an attack bonus when you have two or more units attacking a single hex at a time (because the defender is theoretically facing attack from more than one direction). Auxiliary units (non core units) are usually not very strong in the game and unless a Russian unit is weakened, you should not expect an auxiliary unit to be attacking a full-strength Russian unit that has not been suppressed by artillery file and expect a positive outcome. Roll up a Brumbar and another artillery piece next to each other and move one of the artillery units next to the city hex you are attacking. Of course, the artillery should be shielded on its flanks by armor or other units. However, the defending Russian infantry unit can't do anything to a Brumbar or even an StuH42, and if tried, the other arty piece supporting it would get a pre-emptive, defensive shot first. In most instances, if the AI can see you have two arty pieces supporting each other, they are not going to attack the artillery because of this reason (unless they are using heavy armored units). It just takes a lot of practice to know what kind of assault "team" to use to approach each city. But take advantage of arty suppression, as well as attacking the hex with two or more units simultaneously.

As I already commented: I think that from what other players have gone from experience, I have very few units. So I can move few units to capture cities not objective.
So if I move a lot of units (at least 3 suggested that an infantry plus a support unit and an artillery) defalcate I'll fight for my main object. So I'm acting this way, the small team I have.
But I need something know in attack bonus, I can pull a second auxiliary unit that she will bring the same bonus as a unit experienced when performing the attack with my main unit (probably a pioneer)?

As far as I know, it does not matter if the units you move adjacent to an enemy held hex are core or auxiliary, I think the same multiple-front attack bonus applies. Just make sure you use some arty to suppress the unit in the city you are trying to attack. Pionere units are also very good to have because they ignore entrenchment levels. Some people like using the flame-throwing tank for this same reason (although it is super-fragile and a magnet for enemy attacks).

[ceandersen]

As far as I know, it does not matter if the units you move adjacent to an enemy held hex are core or auxiliary, I think the same multiple-front attack bonus applies. Just make sure you use some arty to suppress the unit in the city you are trying to attack. Pionere units are also very good to have because they ignore entrenchment levels. Some people like using the flame-throwing tank for this same reason (although it is super-fragile and a magnet for enemy attacks).

thanks for the tip, I will start to include these units and also will take care of them with enough zeal!

[ceandersen]

If you are taking losses against a single unit in a city you are playing the game wrong. Give it some practice and you will see what I am talking about.

I think that from what other players have gone from experience, I have very few units. So I can move few units to capture cities not objective. I'm gaining experience for my next campaign ...

Do you have left over slots for deployment in the beginning of the scenario? A lot of people have units they cannot deploy but they still deploy as many units as possible. If you haven't posted your CORE please do so and we can tell you what we think about it!

Thanks for the help! There are several scenarios that can not complete all the spaces. In some situations had heavy losses in others for to be weak, I could not capture all enemy units available. That was you what needed to know right?
So, in a way, I'm doing a campaign for recovery. Despite being massacred.

[brettz123]

Yes that was what I wanted to know. If you cannot complete all the spaces for troops you probably will not be able to take secondary cities as you just won't have enough units. What difficulty level are you playing on?