Small graphics pack

Peter Stauffenberg · Post by **Peter Stauffenberg** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:17 am

Here is a link to what's not legal to show in wargames in Germany:
http://www.ghs-kosim.de/ghs_informes.html

It's not only the swastika and the nazi flag, but also SS runes, Totenkopf skull to name a few.

But this is not legislated very strict. E. g. Some World In Flames additions have German SS units with SS runes (like Patton in Flames).

I've been in German gaming conventions a few time (like the wargames convention in Braunfels) and spoken to German people about this. They told me that the German government would probably not react to computer games or board games unless the games get a lot of publicity and the symbols are used to glorify Nazism. My impression was that the German gaming community itself was the one talking to gaming distributors about removing any nazi symbols etc. The reason is that the Germans feel embarrassed about seeingt these symbols. It's a reminder of the evil path of their country and many German wargamers simply feel that showing these symbols aren't necessary to enjoy the game completely.

So. It's true that it's illegal under German law to publish games showing nazi symbols, but the government would not intervene if someone reported a game had a SS rune on some counters etc. What could happen is that the German gaming community would avoid purchasing games showing such symbols so the stores would sell less. Some stores would themselves be reluctant to sell games with such symbols because the gaming community might react negatively to it.

dooya · Post by **dooya** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:38 am

Stauffenberg wrote:[...]
So. It's true that it's illegal under German law to publish games showing nazi symbols, but the government would not intervene if someone reported a game had a SS rune on some counters etc. [...]

You might be wrong about that. The "Bundesprüfstelle für jugendgefährdende Schriften" is a federal institution that checks any media including computer games for their content. If they feel that certain content is a danger to the youth, they put it at "FSK 18" which means that

(1) no person below 18 years is allowed to by this game,
(2) the game is not allowed to be placed openly in a shop,
(3) no public advertising of the game is allowed.

This alone might be the commercial end for any game. But moreover, it is possible to ban a game from sales at all, i.e., then it is illegal to buy or sell (maybe even own? don't know for sure) that game in Germany.

Thus, if some publisher puts swasticas in its games, they will for sure not published in Germany.

See also:
http://www.bundespruefstelle.de/bmfsfj/ ... glish.html

Redpossum · Post by **Redpossum** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:14 pm

Stauffenberg, thank you very much. That page you linked to says exactly what I was trying to say with my initial objection to this graphics pack, but far more eloquently.

To be honest, I don't even know what some of those symbols are, the Rhombs in particular, and banning Odin's Cross and the Celtic Cross seems odd, but I am guessing those were used by specific Waffen SS divisions as their symbol. I am by no means an expert on the SS; I lack that fascination some people seem to have.

I do think many people have a somewhat mistaken impression of the Waffen SS. Reading Black Edelweiss was something of an eye-opener for me. And of course The Forgotten Soldier by Guy Sajer, although the latter deals mostly with the author's time in Gross Deutschhland, which was, of course, an army elite division, not Waffen SS.

I always place far more weight on a first-hand account than anything recorded after the fact by somebody analyzing maps and written records.

One of the sad things about our current day is that the very last of the eye-witnesses are dying of old age. I used to have a regular customer at my last job who had been a ball-turret gunner in B-17's. Twice a week Sam and Lois would come in at 7am and have pie. Sam always got Boysenberry with whipped cream, and another server teased him one day about cholesterol and such crap. So Sam told us his story. Shot down twice. The first time separated from his crew and picked up by the French Resistance who "invited" him to come along as they raided a German supply depot. The second time wounded and into the Channel, plane sinking, Sam trapped in the ball, his Captain diving back under the water to pull his skinny 19-year old ass out of the sinking plane. His conclusion was, "I'm eighty-four goddam years old. If the f**king nazis couldn't kill me, and the english channel couldn't kill me, no goddam little piece of pie with whipped cream is going to do me in!"

They just don't make men like that anymore.

Peter Stauffenberg · Post by **Peter Stauffenberg** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:00 pm

dooya wrote:
Stauffenberg wrote:[...]
So. It's true that it's illegal under German law to publish games showing nazi symbols, but the government would not intervene if someone reported a game had a SS rune on some counters etc. [...]
You might be wrong about that.

I'm just referring to information given by German wargaming community members I met at the conventions. They stay that theoretically the German government could intervene, but they had never heard about any incidents. Maybe because the gaming community themselves tried to make the wargames sold in Germany "clean". But it's hard to have full control.

Look here for WIF Patton in Flames counters:
http://users.ats.dk/jsp/wif/2001ge1.jpg

Here you see SS runes on counters like SS Nordland.

Here you see WIF version 5 also used SS runes:
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/froon/WiF/c ... CSH15.html

These symbols are illegal according to German law, but I saw WIFFE with expansions sold in gaming stores etc. in Germany. The point is that it's very very hard for the government to monitor every little detail of every little game for infringements. Remember that Australian Design Group has officially stated that they don't support the use of Nazi symbols and still you find SS runes in WIFFE. I think the problem is that it's not easy for everyone to know which symbols are actually considered offensive. Game companies seemd to focus mostly on the use of the Swastika and won't show the Nazi flag on counters etc. SS runes are easier to forget. Etc.

So you're right in theory, but I haven't heard of any incidents where wargames have been withdrawn from gaming stores in e. g. police razzias or similar because they show illegal symbols. I think everybody who knows about the problem with wargames and nazi symbols know that the German wargaming community are doing everything necessary to keep games within Germany as "clean" as possible so nobody feels it's time to report any games to the police.

dooya · Post by **dooya** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:53 pm

Stauffenberg wrote:
dooya wrote:
Stauffenberg wrote:[...]
So. It's true that it's illegal under German law to publish games showing nazi symbols, but the government would not intervene if someone reported a game had a SS rune on some counters etc. [...]
You might be wrong about that.
I'm just referring to information given by German wargaming community members I met at the conventions. They stay that theoretically the German government could intervene, but they had never heard about any incidents. Maybe because the gaming community themselves tried to make the wargames sold in Germany "clean". But it's hard to have full control.

Look here for WIF Patton in Flames counters:
http://users.ats.dk/jsp/wif/2001ge1.jpg

Here you see SS runes on counters like SS Nordland.

Here you see WIF version 5 also used SS runes:
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/froon/WiF/c ... CSH15.html

These symbols are illegal according to German law, but I saw WIFFE with expansions sold in gaming stores etc. in Germany. The point is that it's very very hard for the government to monitor every little detail of every little game for infringements. Remember that Australian Design Group has officially stated that they don't support the use of Nazi symbols and still you find SS runes in WIFFE. I think the problem is that it's not easy for everyone to know which symbols are actually considered offensive. Game companies seemd to focus mostly on the use of the Swastika and won't show the Nazi flag on counters etc. SS runes are easier to forget. Etc.

So you're right in theory, but I haven't heard of any incidents where wargames have been withdrawn from gaming stores in e. g. police razzias or similar because they show illegal symbols. I think everybody who knows about the problem with wargames and nazi symbols know that the German wargaming community are doing everything necessary to keep games within Germany as "clean" as possible so nobody feels it's time to report any games to the police.

Actually I thought that we are talking about PC-games. I do not know much about board games and the board game community and I would never doubt any of the things you've been told. Maybe they are just in a niche that is not observed?

Nevertheless, this is not necessarily true for other areas. Publishers localizing PC-games for the German market are very cautious when it comes to WW2 symbols and persons. For instance, Hearts of Iron has half of the German politicians renamed, because the use of the names of some of them is prohibited by the same law that prohibits the Swastica.

afk_nero · Post by **afk_nero** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:24 am

The download has unfortunatly expired - is there anychance of getting this again.

Apologies but I missed it the first time around.

Magneto70 · Post by **Magneto70** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:22 am

Sorry, but I can´t find the link to this mod anymore. Is there any other way of downloading this excellent work ?

Thank you

nats · Post by **nats** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:37 pm

I am not bothered too much about the icon bit but colour terrain I am interested in. Anyone got copies of these colour terrains that they could share somewhere?

Horseman · Post by **Horseman** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:42 am

Am I going crazy? I'm pretty sure I already have colour terrain?!

Ike99 · Post by **Ike99** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:21 am

I created this historic WW2 symbols mod pack for anyone who wishes them.

What´s included...

The historic WW2 German flag in the three sizes.
The historic WW2 roundels for...

Norway
Finland
Yugoslavia
Rumania
Bulgaria
Italy
Hungary

All symbols provided in this folder are soley for historical purposes and in no way is intended to support or promote any ideology.

Screen Shot
http://s934.photobucket.com/albums/ad18 ... undels.jpg

Download
http://rapidshare.com/files/262409853/HISTORIC.zip.html

gerones · Post by **gerones** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 1:00 pm

Ike99 wrote:I created this historic WW2 symbols mod pack for anyone who wishes them.

What´s included...

The historic WW2 German flag in the three sizes.
The historic WW2 roundels for...

Norway
Finland
Yugoslavia
Rumania
Bulgaria
Italy
Hungary

All symbols provided in this folder are soley for historical purposes and in no way is intended to support or promote any ideology.

Screen Shot
http://s934.photobucket.com/albums/ad18 ... undels.jpg

Download
http://rapidshare.com/files/262409853/HISTORIC.zip.html

I think these changes are specially useful for italian units that can be easily confused with hungarian units or french units (if you are a little colour-blind)

Peter Stauffenberg · Post by **Peter Stauffenberg** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:32 pm

Nice looking graphics pack.

But remember that the emblems are needed in 2 sizes 8x8 and 16x16. The ones you provided are the 16x16 ones. Is it possible to also make the 8x8 emblems? They're used for zoom level 2.

PDiFolco · Post by **PDiFolco** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:14 am

The file is no longer available, can someone rehost it pls ? I'm fed up playing Nazi Germany disguised as Weimar Republik ....

Ike99 · Post by **Ike99** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:04 pm

The file is no longer available, can someone rehost it pls ? I'm fed up playing Nazi Germany disguised as Weimar Republik ....

Rapid Share has a limit of 10 free downloads per file. I fresh upload it, The fresh file is here.

Download
http://rapidshare.com/files/262961631/H ... 2.zip.html

Screen Shot
http://s934.photobucket.com/albums/ad18 ... undels.jpg

Nice looking graphics pack. Smile But remember that the emblems are needed in 2 sizes 8x8 and 16x16. The ones you provided are the 16x16 ones. Is it possible to also make the 8x8 emblems? They're used for zoom level 2.

I´m almost always zoomed in. It is really hard to make anything from 8x8 pixels. I might work on them some time in the future.

PDiFolco · Post by **PDiFolco** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:21 pm

Many thanks Ike !

gerones · Post by **gerones** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:01 pm

Ike, could you upload this graphic pack again? The file uploaded in rapidshare by you (showed below) is not available by now. Thanks!

http://rapidshare.com/files/262961631/H ... 2.zip.html

Ike99 · Post by **Ike99** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:54 pm

Ike, could you upload this graphic pack again? The file uploaded in rapidshare by you (showed below) is not available by now. Thanks!

It is here, fresh upload..

http://rapidshare.com/files/278590509/H ... 2.zip.html

gerones · Post by **gerones** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:14 pm

Ike99 wrote:
Ike, could you upload this graphic pack again? The file uploaded in rapidshare by you (showed below) is not available by now. Thanks!
It is here, fresh upload..

http://rapidshare.com/files/278590509/H ... 2.zip.html

Thanks!

JyriErik · Post by **JyriErik** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:59 am

I decided to cheat and used "resize" to change the rondels from 16x16 to 8x8. Definite loss of detail, but still recognizable as the new versions. Unless someone wants to put major effort into making 8x8s, just send me a PM & I can send them to you.

Jyri

Leatherface59 · Post by **Leatherface59** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:32 pm

Well... Impossible to download

. Can someone help ? It would be very nice

Small graphics pack

historic symbols

Re: historic symbols