Upcoming Computer Games Wish List

[MajVonRyan]

"...I'd be more than willing to spend on my interests, even if it meant eventually spending a few hundreds of bucks on a single game.
But then again, I play Advanced Squad Leader (well I have the game at least hehe). I am not averse to spending money.
And I couldn't really say I'd have a problem if Slitherine ended up making good money in the process

Yes, I would also spend a few hundreds bucks for a good game, "the greatest game that any company could make would be Advance Squad Leader" not like the one released a few year ago by Microsoft (?) but more in line with Close Combat and Steel Panthers combined.

[Wodin]

God it sounded good! hough I think giving it two scales a sort of scale within a scale is where I reckon they came unstuck. If they had just kept it at 50m we may have eventually seen it released.

I wonder now Slitherine is onboard, Slitherine will look into reviving the project, as there is a big customer base out there who'd be interested.

Hi Wodin,

I agreed, there are a lot of gamers that would buy the game!

Those screenshots on that page wjhere early development ones, they released more later including some taken in a City with tram lines etc.

[MajVonRyan]

[quote="Wodin Those screenshots on that page wjhere early development ones, they released more later including some taken in a City with tram lines etc.[/quote]

Hi Wodin,

If someboby has saved a copy of the later screenshots, could they post a link? It would be greatly appreciated

[Wodin]

I didn't myself. I think the only way you might see them is ask Matrix nicely if they can email them to you. Though I doubt they will. Besides you'd just be torturing yourself.

[MajVonRyan]

I didn't myself. I think the only way you might see them is ask Matrix nicely if they can email them to you. Though I doubt they will. Besides you'd just be torturing yourself.

Hi, you are most likely right, but I thought that when Matrix first started it was a gamers site made by gamers for gamers! And now that Slitherine and Matrix are linked by (I hope) a common goal, to produce great games for gamers, any feedback re: want gamers feel would be a great game would be welcome.

I feel that most gamers that purchased a Squad Leader or ASL game would love to purchase the same game and play it on a computer. Other than a copyright issue (?), I can not see why no one has produced a true copy of Squad Leader or ASL. If it could be done, it would make the company that makes it very rich in two ways, by firstly producing a very much loved game and secondly by the amount of sales $ it would generate (and hopefully reinvested in other great games)!

It would be nice if Slitherine and Matix would raise a new topic: Who would want to purchase Squad Leader or ASL as a computer game?

[MrsWargamer]

The facts of Squad Leader/ASL in any electronic form including a manual are the game is owned by Hasbro, and they have allowed the digital rights to sit with some swine company that has been sitting on them for years.

It isn't going to happen ie the game become a computer version requiring no human opponent. Not until MMP (Multi Man Publishing), the current authorised official source of the paper version of all things ASL rescues these digital rights. It's an old lament, older than the Steel Panthers lament by the way, that all ASLers are familiar with.

There was once a computer game 'called' Squad Leader a looooong time ago, which most ASLers refuse to mention simply because it was so bad at the code level it is considered the worst game ever created.

Real ASL can actually be played on a computer via an interface program called VASL though (a variant of the Vassal program).

[Wodin]

Actually Paradox bought the Squad Leader rights about four or five years ago. They have done nothing with them. I think they just wanted to own them so no one else could have them to be honest.

[MajVonRyan]

Actually Paradox bought the Squad Leader rights about four or five years ago. They have done nothing with them. I think they just wanted to own them so no one else could have them to be honest.

Well, this topic started as a wish list and 'Squad Leader' is still on my wish list

[MrsWargamer]

Actually Wodin, the digital rights (the best term to employ there) have been outside the reach of MMP ever since MMP has been in existence.

Not sure if it was Paradox all along, but regardless you are correct, Paradox has had no interest in doing sweet friggin diddlly with the rights.

If one visits Gamesquad, they can hear a LOOOOONG dialogue about this matter. And how not having the rights has prevented MMP from making any manner of digital manual as well. Something though a person with even a vague idea of what they are doing can accomplish with a bland scanner and pdf software. All of the hard core ASLers (like myself) already have on average 3 versions of digital manual. The only people that don't 'officially' have a digital manuals, are the supposed official source of the manual MMP.

With VASL software a person can play genuine bonafide ASL on their computer. And the only thing that will be missing is you laughing at your buddy when he buggers a dice roll, and drinking some brews together on a warm day's gaming. I have resisted mastering VASL ONLY because this gamer is all about ftf or not at all for the most part. Not because it isn't adequate to the task.

Most board games can be played via either Vassal or Cyberboard. Essentially, these likely could be good points of reference for what a board game made computer game might look like. But then again, if you leave out the moron AI, what else is needed? I think if we teamed up Vassal or Cyberboard with Slitherine's opponent matching we might have a miracle in the making.

It doesn't always need to be a program like Close Combat to some extent. And I am sure their is no 'pathing' issues in Vassal or Cyberboad

[Wodin]

Matrix or slitherine should have bought the rights not paradox. Missed opportunity. Not just for them but for gamers aswell.

[MrsWargamer]

Not sure about Slitherine, but Matrix Games didn't even exist when the rights were sold away actually Wodin.

Matrix Games came into being in 1999-2000 if I recall (I was there when they opened their forum).

MMP managed to secure ASL back in the early to mid 90s. They wanted the electronic rights, but they were already gone.

[Wodin]

I'm talking about when Paradox bought them and if I remember rightly Matrix where around when they purchased the Squad leader rights. Link to Matrix forum from 2004 when it was announced Paradox bought the computer squad leader rights.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.as ... y=&#679090

[MajVonRyan]

I'm talking about when Paradox bought them and if I remember rightly Matrix where around when they purchased the Squad leader rights. Link to Matrix forum from 2004 when it was announced Paradox bought the computer squad leader rights.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.as ... y=&#679090

Why purchase the rights to one of the greatest board wargames series (Squad Leader / ASL) ever designed and do nothing with it for 8 years?

How about Slitherine / Matraix, purchasing the rights to Squad Leader and or ASL, designing the game and releasing it? I will pre-purchase one of the first games and its add-on modules.

[MrsWargamer]

I recall that 2004 moment in time (vaguely though at best).

I only know that the rights were already gone when MMP came on the scene, and I don't think MMP really has the resources to go past physical products for the real thing.
And it needs to be stated, MMP already has the non electronic rights, and no one expects them to ever give them up. And you can likely assume 99% of the ASL faithful would freak out if someone other than MMP was ever given the digital rights if they came available.

I know someone had to have the rights for when that abomination PC game was released. It had the name on the box, but it has zero to do with the name on the box and the software was beyond worthless as well.

As I see it though, Paradox couldn't have done any worse. I pity people willing to waste valuable daylight insisting anything made by Paradox is worth a cent. It's just embarassing that they are a Canadian company. Personally I'd offer you more for a handful of Canadian snow that any game made by Paradox. Why they secured the rights to ASL is anyone's guess. But why anyone buys their games is an even bigger mystery.

The biggest barrier to getting the rights to anything ASL though is Hasbro, who would expect an entirely idiotic sum for the pleasure.
The next barrier is like I mentioned, the simple fact is if a gamer is suitably motivated, they CAN after all just download VASL (it's free) and play the real game via their computer. Nothing trumps the real thing like the real thing for free.

I have seen some Steel Panthers scenarios nearly completely clone some SL/ASL scenarios actually. Amazingly close. Still it is the Steel Panthers program running the experience and it performs like Steel Panthers not ASL.

I am unsure where Slitherine was financially in 2004, but Matrix Games in 2004 most definitely wouldn't have had access to the needed cash to 'buy' the rights to ASL in the digital realm. And I hardly need insider private information to make THAT remark. I was present in 2000 when Matrix Games was just some fans of Steel Panthers with a dream of becoming a lot more. They have since become a lot more, but that is now, not then. I recall the struggles Matrix Games went through just to manage the Mega Campaigns. Most of the games sold 'through' Matrix Games, are to be fair, really the genius of the many varied developers that enjoy being all in one spot at Matrix Games. Matrix Games does a nice job of providing a common umbrella for many developers, but, Matrix Games has not had an easy time with their own projects. Combat Leader was I suppose their proof of the pudding.

If the day ever comes, that we are given a reborn Steel Panthers, it will likely be the work of someone that just took it upon themselves to make it happen, and that won't be beholding to anyone else's support. They will need to possess the programming skill on their own, and be capable of doing it on their own, and THEN showing up with it and saying to the Matrix Games/Slitherine partnership, 'interested in my game being published through you?'. Our hobby has several examples of people capable of just making wargames because they wish to do it. John Tiller and Ron of Schwerpunkt Games being two examples.

It is not important for a game to wear a famous name on the box, it merely needs to be as good as the game attached the famous name.

[Wodin]

Well said as usually DSWargamer.

[MajVonRyan]

[quote="DSWargamer"] ...... download VASL (it's free) and play the real game via their computer. Nothing trumps the real thing like the real thing for free.

I have seen some Steel Panthers scenarios nearly completely clone some SL/ASL scenarios actually. Amazingly close. Still it is the Steel Panthers program running the experience and it performs like Steel Panthers not ASL."

Hi DSWargamer,

Well said, can SL/ASL and steel panthers be played on VASL as Solitaire games (single player) or do they still require two players?

[MajVonRyan]

...... download VASL (it's free) and play the real game via their computer. Nothing trumps the real thing like the real thing for free.

I have seen some Steel Panthers scenarios nearly completely clone some SL/ASL scenarios actually. Amazingly close. Still it is the Steel Panthers program running the experience and it performs like Steel Panthers not ASL."

Hi DSWargamer,

Well said, can SL/ASL and steel panthers be played on VASL as Solitaire games (single player) or do they still require two players?

[MajVonRyan]

...... download VASL (it's free) and play the real game via their computer. Nothing trumps the real thing like the real thing for free.

I have seen some Steel Panthers scenarios nearly completely clone some SL/ASL scenarios actually. Amazingly close. Still it is the Steel Panthers program running the experience and it performs like Steel Panthers not ASL."

Hi DSWargamer,

Well said, can SL/ASL and steel panthers be played on VASL as Solitaire games (single player) or do they still require two players?

Found the website: http://www.advancedsquadleader.net/index.php/VASL, looks like I have a bit of reading to do in between playing Conflict of Heroes

[MrsWargamer]

The basic reply (about VASL) is it is a derivative of Vassal, and those programs are really just graphical interfaces representing the counters on the map in a way that allows the gamer to state to their opponent, "I move unit such and such from here to there".

The program is not a replacement for the real game, and it is assumed you own the real game, and the program merely bridges the gap between players via the screen.

I can't fathom a player using VASL to play ASL solo. There is no AI in any form. Nothing happens till the player manually makes it occur.

It's the purest form of computer wargame program designed to permit two wargamers to play the same board game without needing to be in the same room.

I some times wish that is what most computer wargames were, just programs meant to link two human opponents with no time energy and resources wasted designing idiotic AI software. Ever notice, that most complaining on most forums connected to wargaming, usually involves some manner of bitching about the worthless AI?

No offense to the industry's software makers out there, but AI programming is basically worthless. We are SOOOOO not even close to seeing Terminator any time soon. Or Matrix, or Dune or any other manner of doom and gloom result from machines becoming sentient. They are faster than us, but, they are not thinking any more than your calculator thinks.

[MajVonRyan]

Thanks,

You are right in saying that computer game AI's are not as good as playing against another wargamer. I am currently playing Napoleon against another wargamer on-line and often play all weekend a couple times per year.