T-34 vs Panzer III & IV

charonjr · Post by **charonjr** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:58 pm

Thank you for the link, interesting and a bit better for the German guns than I have read earlier, but "The general conclusion is that the front armor of T-34 was a more or less reliable protection against German 50-mm guns, while sides and turret could be penetrated in a singnificant percentage of cases and for the most part T-34s were knocked out by such type of hits.".

And with such real life data the problem is that the penetrations might have been due to being fired at from fairly low range - but I am willing to concede that they could have been damaged more easily than I thought. Now a similar site for the German tanks would be interesting since I still think that the T-34 should have better defensive values than most of the German tanks of this time

CharonJr

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:50 am

which is why Russia lost so many of them???

I personally feel the superiority of the T-34 was its mechanical reliability and its massive numbers. Yes it was an innovative design but still the Russians lost tons of them to their German counterparts.
for what its worth

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:00 am

Current:

Reducing the Panzer IVF defense by -2(13 down to 11) and increasing the T-34/41 defense by +2(12 up to 14) becomes

That new prediction makes me very uncomfortable, especially when you look at the prices of these two units.

Looks like only +1 defense is warranted for the T34/40 and T34/41, and the IVF will definitely need some other improved stats to compensate for its armor loss.

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:02 am

Oh, and the Panzer IIIG and IIIJ have a 4-2 prediction now, in favor of the T-34/41.

So only +1 defense on these T-34s... and maybe sprinkle a few more T-34/41s in the campaign and less T-34/40s.

Tarrak · Post by **Tarrak** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:03 am

deadtorius wrote:which is why Russia lost so many of them???

I personally feel the superiority of the T-34 was its mechanical reliability and its massive numbers. Yes it was an innovative design but still the Russians lost tons of them to their German counterparts.
for what its worth

I personally think as well the the T34 is a bit overrated. It was a very good tank no questions and it shocked the Germans but not mostly because it was so technically superior. The problem is the Nazis considered all Slavs to be subhuman and uncivilized. A big part of the shock was that they was able to develop such a good tank at all not that it was THAT good. The sheer numbers of the T34 that Russia was able to produce was going to grant them Victory if the war lasted long enough. The Blitzkrieg failed in Russia due to weather and it's sear size and good luck beating it in a war of attrition.

Longasc · Post by **Longasc** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:39 am

Don't think the IVF needs some compensation.

The tests nevertheless show that +1 GD and "a sprinkle more T34/41" might be better for the soup.

I guess I need to create a similar test scenario with Kerensky but I have no practice with the map editor and it seems that testing is done via pzequip.dat editing via text editor and then loading the game and test scenario every time again?

charonjr · Post by **charonjr** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:20 am

+1 GD for the T34 looks good, maybe a bit more initiative for the German tanks due to their superior optics or lower for the T34 due to the small turret?

Razz1 · Post by **Razz1** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:42 pm

I agree, add +1 to Initiative for the PZIVF and see what she looks like.