Horseman V2 DLC GC
Moderators: Slitherine Core, The Lordz, Panzer Corps Moderators, Panzer Corps Design
HAve to agree with some of what you say here...will get a better idea on field marshall BUT I suspect I'll still have a rather large core force on Field Marshall just not as big. PArt of the reason is buing new units instead of upgradinold ones...this is because I'll always play the long term strategy. The PzIs have been upgraded to panzer IVs now which was always my plan...and it doesn't cost any more than buying new and they have xp. The new Pz38s upgraded cheaply to PzIIIs and also now have xp, so its cost me nothing to have these forcesLongasc wrote:First, Horseman should play on Field Marshal if not one of the three extra difficulties.
This is one of the reasons behind the gigantic core force he got till the end of the 1939 campaign.
Why he still has Panzer I at the end of 1939 and rather buys so many extra units is a mystery to me.
The really large core force - did other players have a similarly numerous core?
My issue is - I think Eben-Emael is very fine as it is as 1940 Campaign start point.
But it's true that 1939 Campaign core units will have it much easier.
--> My suggestion is to make Narvik harder.
The 1940 campaign start could use an extra Stuka or Sturmpanzer.
Sounds like a good idea to me. Could also tone down the chances of getting one? Dont like the thought of them being a "throw" away unit which could be a danger if they're awarded as easily as I've got themKerensky wrote:I thought about pre-placing SE units, but I felt it detracts from their being special. More likely, there will be SE unit changes coming. Max 1 SE unit in DLC 1939. Max 2 SE unit in DLC 1940. Max 3 SE unit in DLC 1941. Max 5 SE unit DLC 1942. And so on.
The force on FM is as big... 
Eben-Emael - Field Marshal - 1070 prestige left after repairs/upgrades and buying new units
Available units (30):
Infantry (8):
2 Wehrmacht Infantrie **(*) 2EK, 1 hero + 1 SE **(*) EK, hero
1 Fallschirmjäger *(*)
1 Gebirgsjäger **(*) 1EK
2 Pioniere **(*) 2EK, 1 hero
1 Brückenpioniere (*)
1 Grenadier (new SE)
Panzer/recon (6):
3 PzIIIF **(*) 3EK + 1 SE **
1 PzIVD (new)
1 8Rad **(*)
Artillery/AT (8):
1 PaK 3,7cm (*) (never upgraded)
3 15cm sFH18 **(*) 2EK
3 Sturmpanzer I - 2 **(*), 1 *(*) 1EK
1 Polish 10,5cm (*) never used
Luftwaffe (8):
2 Bf109E - 1 **(*) EK, 1*(*)
3 Ju87B **(*) 3EK, 3 hero (I think even 1 or 2 EK1s there - edit: checked here - just 1 EK1, gained during Narvik)
1 Bf110D **(*)
2 Ju88A **(*)
CharonJr
Eben-Emael - Field Marshal - 1070 prestige left after repairs/upgrades and buying new units
Available units (30):
Infantry (8):
2 Wehrmacht Infantrie **(*) 2EK, 1 hero + 1 SE **(*) EK, hero
1 Fallschirmjäger *(*)
1 Gebirgsjäger **(*) 1EK
2 Pioniere **(*) 2EK, 1 hero
1 Brückenpioniere (*)
1 Grenadier (new SE)
Panzer/recon (6):
3 PzIIIF **(*) 3EK + 1 SE **
1 PzIVD (new)
1 8Rad **(*)
Artillery/AT (8):
1 PaK 3,7cm (*) (never upgraded)
3 15cm sFH18 **(*) 2EK
3 Sturmpanzer I - 2 **(*), 1 *(*) 1EK
1 Polish 10,5cm (*) never used
Luftwaffe (8):
2 Bf109E - 1 **(*) EK, 1*(*)
3 Ju87B **(*) 3EK, 3 hero (I think even 1 or 2 EK1s there - edit: checked here - just 1 EK1, gained during Narvik)
1 Bf110D **(*)
2 Ju88A **(*)
CharonJr
Last edited by charonjr on Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I also agree that it is a good idea: 1 max SE unit added to each subsequent DLC. Also, like Horseman's idea. Currently, I believe its a 30% chance to get a SE unit per scenario. Maybe, it should be dropped to something like 15% since you'd only be able to get 1 max SE unit per DLC and it would need to be a rarer occurrence.Horseman wrote:Sounds like a good idea to me. Could also tone down the chances of getting one? Dont like the thought of them being a "throw" away unit which could be a danger if they're awarded as easily as I've got themKerensky wrote:I thought about pre-placing SE units, but I felt it detracts from their being special. More likely, there will be SE unit changes coming. Max 1 SE unit in DLC 1939. Max 2 SE unit in DLC 1940. Max 3 SE unit in DLC 1941. Max 5 SE unit DLC 1942. And so on.
Panzer Corps Beta Tester
SE unit related issues are discussed quite often these days.AgentX wrote:I also agree that it is a good idea: 1 max SE unit added to each subsequent DLC. Also, like Horseman's idea. Currently, I believe its a 30% chance to get a SE unit per scenario. Maybe, it should be dropped to something like 15% since you'd only be able to get 1 max SE unit per DLC and it would need to be a rarer occurrence.Horseman wrote:Sounds like a good idea to me. Could also tone down the chances of getting one? Dont like the thought of them being a "throw" away unit which could be a danger if they're awarded as easily as I've got themKerensky wrote:I thought about pre-placing SE units, but I felt it detracts from their being special. More likely, there will be SE unit changes coming. Max 1 SE unit in DLC 1939. Max 2 SE unit in DLC 1940. Max 3 SE unit in DLC 1941. Max 5 SE unit DLC 1942. And so on.
"Milking" the third SE is an advanced strategy known only to the shrewd or those reading the forums.
I personally consider it exploitive, but again, up to you what you do in single player.
The campaign testing related issue is it makes it easier for advanced players to get even more Prestige and skews the results they report even more.
So yeah, I welcome Kerensky's ideas on limiters.
Let me copy & paste an idea I posted on the main forum already, regarding how SE units are awarded.
1.) My suggestion:
SE unit points awarded based on Minor Victory or Decisive Victory scores.
Buy your SE unit based on your point budget.
The SE unit points could be named "Merit points" or something like that.
Loss : 0 points
Minor Victory: 1 point
Major Victory: 2 points
Price of SE units:
Infantry - 3 points
Tanks - 4 points
Prototypes/High End Tanks - 5 points
2.) iainmcneil also had the (IMO brilliant, easy & effective) idea that disbanding SE units simply should not award Prestige anymore - you didn't pay for them either, after all.
I like the idea of not getting any prestige back for disbanding SE Units, the only reason I get rid of them is becasue I've got the wrong type (I liek 2 tanks and 1 inf)
Of course if I'd thought about it I should have just disbanded them in the scenario where you dont get given Presitige for disbanding anyway! DOH!
Of course if I'd thought about it I should have just disbanded them in the scenario where you dont get given Presitige for disbanding anyway! DOH!
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monkspider
- Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
- Posts: 1254
- Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:22 am
The thought of disbanding a third SE unit never occurred to me. I can see the exploitative side of it, but it doesn't strike me as that big of an issue. Afterall, you will be denying yourself use of an SE unit during at least that battle for what is likely to be a fairly modest amount of prestige. I do see the cheesiness of it, but it seems like more trouble than it is worth.
For the DLCs, I always see SE units as being granted at specific times, which I think is better than the random system. For instance, winning Spoils of War might get you a SE unit, or maybe at the start of Warsaw High Command sees fit to give you an extra SE infantry to spearhead the assault. There's also a limit, of course, so there might be a limit of 1 in DLC 1939 but 2 or 3 chances to get one, so if you lose one you have more chances to earn yourself another one.
If granting SE units is not random anymore, then their prestige cost should be 0, so you can't disband for prestige (although why would you want to?) and you can upgrade them to whatever you want to suit your needs. This may seem like a "bonus" core slot, but remember, if you lose the unit, you can't just buy another one, you'd have to earn it.
This is probably best seen on the Ostfront, when historically many more SE units (well, SS historically) did fight. For instance, at the start of Kharkov 43 or its series of scenario, you might get two SE tanks and a SE infantry to represent the support from Hausser's SS Panzer Corps.
I just don't like the current random system.
If granting SE units is not random anymore, then their prestige cost should be 0, so you can't disband for prestige (although why would you want to?) and you can upgrade them to whatever you want to suit your needs. This may seem like a "bonus" core slot, but remember, if you lose the unit, you can't just buy another one, you'd have to earn it.
This is probably best seen on the Ostfront, when historically many more SE units (well, SS historically) did fight. For instance, at the start of Kharkov 43 or its series of scenario, you might get two SE tanks and a SE infantry to represent the support from Hausser's SS Panzer Corps.
I just don't like the current random system.
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monkspider
- Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
- Posts: 1254
- Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:22 am
I don't know if I would want to see them being granted slower, other than that I would like to see the issue of only getting SE infantry in the 1939 campaign fixed. They are my favorite units to baby, I always give them custom names and elite replacements (which kinda reflects historical reality actually). I like having a full stack of three SE units, but I do agree that the random system is problematic. In the main campaign, it gives you an incentive to do reloads until you get the SE unit you are wanting. I like the idea of awarding them based on "merit points", perhaps some kind of alternative currency in the game. But if there was less randomness to them, it would be ideal.
Albert Canal - starting prestige 1872
DV on turn 18
No new purchases or upgrades. After reinforcing I had 1027 prestige
A nice simple scenario. advance and capture. The Canal running up the middle really divided the map and I liked the layout. Seeing the 3 Auxillary AA units made me think and I'm glad I deployed all 3 fighters and both fighter bombers! The allied bomber counter attack really caused a lot of damage and I nearly lost a few core ubits. Luckily the only loss was the 88 Air Defence. But maybe the alliies should have had some more fighters to protect the bombers? That would have upped the difficulty nicely.
Overall I feel this one was maybe a touch easy with the forces at my disposal.
Ending prestige 2312
DV on turn 18
No new purchases or upgrades. After reinforcing I had 1027 prestige
A nice simple scenario. advance and capture. The Canal running up the middle really divided the map and I liked the layout. Seeing the 3 Auxillary AA units made me think and I'm glad I deployed all 3 fighters and both fighter bombers! The allied bomber counter attack really caused a lot of damage and I nearly lost a few core ubits. Luckily the only loss was the 88 Air Defence. But maybe the alliies should have had some more fighters to protect the bombers? That would have upped the difficulty nicely.
Overall I feel this one was maybe a touch easy with the forces at my disposal.
Ending prestige 2312
Sorry for the delay, hectic weekend in work! Back on to the hard work of beta testing..... 
The Hague - starting prestige 2812
DV on turn 15
Bought myself a new fighter and upgraded my remaining Pz38 to a IV, after reinforcing ledt with 580 Prestige
The last scenario obviously left me withone hefty repair bill!!!
Another save the auxillary units mission, easy right? WRONG! The southern group had 1 para left at 1 str and the northern had 1 left at 2 str! Managed to save all the middle group but only just (4, 3 and 1 str) with thier artillery at 10 str after I reinforced it before it was destroyed!
Very very fun mission, really enjoyed the rush to break through forcing me to throw caution to the wind at points and risk heavier casulties (which I substained!)
Ending prestige - 1240
The Hague - starting prestige 2812
DV on turn 15
Bought myself a new fighter and upgraded my remaining Pz38 to a IV, after reinforcing ledt with 580 Prestige
The last scenario obviously left me withone hefty repair bill!!!
Another save the auxillary units mission, easy right? WRONG! The southern group had 1 para left at 1 str and the northern had 1 left at 2 str! Managed to save all the middle group but only just (4, 3 and 1 str) with thier artillery at 10 str after I reinforced it before it was destroyed!
Very very fun mission, really enjoyed the rush to break through forcing me to throw caution to the wind at points and risk heavier casulties (which I substained!)
Ending prestige - 1240
This makes The Hague a 1572 Prestige loss scenario. Had some 1100 loss.
You get +500 coming from Albert Canal.
I still think this is quite necessary to get rid of some extra Prestige you carried over from Poland!
Especially as Sedan is quite tame in terms of repair costs and potential gains through conquest.
You get +500 coming from Albert Canal.
I still think this is quite necessary to get rid of some extra Prestige you carried over from Poland!
Especially as Sedan is quite tame in terms of repair costs and potential gains through conquest.
Yes it helps drain some of the excess prestige from the 39 campaign but what about those who started in 40?Longasc wrote:This makes The Hague a 1572 Prestige loss scenario. Had some 1100 loss.
You get +500 coming from Albert Canal.
I still think this is quite necessary to get rid of some extra Prestige you carried over from Poland!
Especially as Sedan is quite tame in terms of repair costs and potential gains through conquest.
Sedan - starting prestige 1840
DV on turn 16
I wasn't able to fully reinforce all my units before I ran out of prestige!!! That shows just how much damage I took last mission. 61 prestige after deployment!
Well heres a good lesson in READ and follow the briefing! Despite the suggestions I foolishly decided to force the 2 crossings (north and Sedan) and against heavy opposition I did manage to bludgeon my way through eventually but at what cost?
Well I didn't lose any units but wow what a repair bill and had to repeatedly reinforce in scenario really draining my prestige count (making it worse was tons of units not over strenghted to start with)
Luckily I did send a task force south with the intent of using the "ferries" to cross the river and attack the rear objectives so I was able to gain a DV as well as a nice new nifty piece of captured euipment
Several turns of trying to force the choke point at Sedan proved time consuming and costly in damage substained then I realised (only about 2 turns after the southern group began using them!) that I could ferry some troops over to outflank the defenses...I'm blaming a lack of sleep here
All in all this has to have been one of the best scenarios yet! Hard? definately! Maybe a bit too hard for Colonel level? Only if you ignore the brief and try and take heavy defences head on instead of using the ferries to land and out flank!
Ending prestige - 516 (ouch!)
DV on turn 16
I wasn't able to fully reinforce all my units before I ran out of prestige!!! That shows just how much damage I took last mission. 61 prestige after deployment!
Well heres a good lesson in READ and follow the briefing! Despite the suggestions I foolishly decided to force the 2 crossings (north and Sedan) and against heavy opposition I did manage to bludgeon my way through eventually but at what cost?
Well I didn't lose any units but wow what a repair bill and had to repeatedly reinforce in scenario really draining my prestige count (making it worse was tons of units not over strenghted to start with)
Luckily I did send a task force south with the intent of using the "ferries" to cross the river and attack the rear objectives so I was able to gain a DV as well as a nice new nifty piece of captured euipment
Several turns of trying to force the choke point at Sedan proved time consuming and costly in damage substained then I realised (only about 2 turns after the southern group began using them!) that I could ferry some troops over to outflank the defenses...I'm blaming a lack of sleep here
All in all this has to have been one of the best scenarios yet! Hard? definately! Maybe a bit too hard for Colonel level? Only if you ignore the brief and try and take heavy defences head on instead of using the ferries to land and out flank!
Ending prestige - 516 (ouch!)
Regarding "The Hague":
"Still... I think this is the first scenario where Prestige was quite tight in the end. Maybe a little more and less Prestige in previous scenarios and especially the 1939 Poland/Norway Grand Campaign."
Regarding "Sedan":
"Prestige was well balanced, I could replace my losses. Seems this scenario was nerfed."
-> I think your assault on the northern cities is a lot to blame for your repair bill. I didn't have any overstrength units.
Sedan: DV 12/18
Start Prestige: 776
End Prestige: 642
Losses: 1 Panzer IVD, 1 Panzer IIIF SE
was my result. Guess turn 16 is the result of the North/South split.
I wonder which path you took! May I suggest Maubeuge/Arras as I found them quite Prestige draining, let's see if you experience something similar!
"Still... I think this is the first scenario where Prestige was quite tight in the end. Maybe a little more and less Prestige in previous scenarios and especially the 1939 Poland/Norway Grand Campaign."
Regarding "Sedan":
"Prestige was well balanced, I could replace my losses. Seems this scenario was nerfed."
-> I think your assault on the northern cities is a lot to blame for your repair bill. I didn't have any overstrength units.
Sedan: DV 12/18
Start Prestige: 776
End Prestige: 642
Losses: 1 Panzer IVD, 1 Panzer IIIF SE
was my result. Guess turn 16 is the result of the North/South split.
I wonder which path you took! May I suggest Maubeuge/Arras as I found them quite Prestige draining, let's see if you experience something similar!
Sorry Longasc I took the other route...
Stonne - starting prestige 2516 wow massive reward for my victory!
DV on turn 12
Managed to fully reinforce my entire command leaving me with 654 prestige
At first glance the briefing tells you this is anothe rdefencsive engagement..once you see the map and look at your objective for a DV you realise you're not going to be hanging back for long!
And so it was, I started rollign forward from turn 1. The narrow map makes this a strait up fight, my experienced units (and a Somua) against the French heavy armour. Over all I'd say this was a bit easy. On one hand a couple of my lead tanks got badly shot up by well timed french counter attacks on the other hand once the luftwaffe got involved the counter attacks were quickly smashed. Not my faveroute mission, just a strait dash south in force but a nice pause for breath after the pounding my forces took at sedan.
I'm also enjoying the greater numbrs of air the allies are employing. It keeps me on mytoes and I have to make sure bombers are escorted and vulnerable targets in spotting distance of the enemy are covered. However they tend to come at me in drips and drabs. Maybe they should all activate together? This would make the battle for the skies slightly harder (though with an advantage in experience and equipment I think the result will be the same) On the flip side not knowing if they have anything left in reserve air wise does keep me on my toes..hmmmmmm
Ending prestige - 1371
Stonne - starting prestige 2516 wow massive reward for my victory!
DV on turn 12
Managed to fully reinforce my entire command leaving me with 654 prestige
At first glance the briefing tells you this is anothe rdefencsive engagement..once you see the map and look at your objective for a DV you realise you're not going to be hanging back for long!
And so it was, I started rollign forward from turn 1. The narrow map makes this a strait up fight, my experienced units (and a Somua) against the French heavy armour. Over all I'd say this was a bit easy. On one hand a couple of my lead tanks got badly shot up by well timed french counter attacks on the other hand once the luftwaffe got involved the counter attacks were quickly smashed. Not my faveroute mission, just a strait dash south in force but a nice pause for breath after the pounding my forces took at sedan.
I'm also enjoying the greater numbrs of air the allies are employing. It keeps me on mytoes and I have to make sure bombers are escorted and vulnerable targets in spotting distance of the enemy are covered. However they tend to come at me in drips and drabs. Maybe they should all activate together? This would make the battle for the skies slightly harder (though with an advantage in experience and equipment I think the result will be the same) On the flip side not knowing if they have anything left in reserve air wise does keep me on my toes..hmmmmmm
Ending prestige - 1371
Wassigny - starting prestige 2371
DV on last turn
A purchased a new fighter in an attempt to gain yet another experienced unit and after repairs I was left with 201 prestige a hefty repair bill after last mission!
I loved the totally unique victory conditions. As I advanced I assumed that the "counter attack" would come from units held in place in the NW and so advanced accordingly. As my units moved in to position to assault the Generals HQ I formed solid defensive positions, this shold be easy I thought......
Then it happened, no all out attack form the NW but enemy units coming from everywhere! All plans now shattered a desperate fall back occurs, battle groups split as artilery positions are now threatened. one battle group escorting the general stalled forced in to a defensive stance as French heavy tanks appear. I now also have to launch attacks on the VH to ensure at least a MV if I am unable to get the escorts moving again further spreading my forces...
In case you didn't get the hint I simply LOVED this scenario, big thumbs up to the designer
The only negative I can think of is that the surprise of the counter attack coming as it did will be lost after the 1st playthrough, on the other hand I'm not sure how much you'll be able to position to counter the French coming from everywhere!
Heavy casualties substained and a hefty repair bill coming up!
Ending prestige 776
DV on last turn
A purchased a new fighter in an attempt to gain yet another experienced unit and after repairs I was left with 201 prestige a hefty repair bill after last mission!
I loved the totally unique victory conditions. As I advanced I assumed that the "counter attack" would come from units held in place in the NW and so advanced accordingly. As my units moved in to position to assault the Generals HQ I formed solid defensive positions, this shold be easy I thought......
Then it happened, no all out attack form the NW but enemy units coming from everywhere! All plans now shattered a desperate fall back occurs, battle groups split as artilery positions are now threatened. one battle group escorting the general stalled forced in to a defensive stance as French heavy tanks appear. I now also have to launch attacks on the VH to ensure at least a MV if I am unable to get the escorts moving again further spreading my forces...
In case you didn't get the hint I simply LOVED this scenario, big thumbs up to the designer
The only negative I can think of is that the surprise of the counter attack coming as it did will be lost after the 1st playthrough, on the other hand I'm not sure how much you'll be able to position to counter the French coming from everywhere!
Heavy casualties substained and a hefty repair bill coming up!
Ending prestige 776
Amiens - starting prestige 1676
DV on turn 15
For the 1st time I was unable to fully reinforce all my units! 1 fighter remained at str 10 (but was left in reserve) leaving me with 22 prestige
After the very fun last scenario back to basics on this one. A standard grind forward knocking out the enemy as I went. I won't say this was a hard one but my attack stalled a couple of times and I had a few scares almost losing one of my valuable core units!
The enemy air once more came at me in several waves rather than all at once. I must say I'm starting to enjoy this feature more....fighters have to be kept providing air cover or you risk some valuable loses on artillery and bombers.
Ending prestige - 968
DV on turn 15
For the 1st time I was unable to fully reinforce all my units! 1 fighter remained at str 10 (but was left in reserve) leaving me with 22 prestige
After the very fun last scenario back to basics on this one. A standard grind forward knocking out the enemy as I went. I won't say this was a hard one but my attack stalled a couple of times and I had a few scares almost losing one of my valuable core units!
The enemy air once more came at me in several waves rather than all at once. I must say I'm starting to enjoy this feature more....fighters have to be kept providing air cover or you risk some valuable loses on artillery and bombers.
Ending prestige - 968