AAR: Supermax Vs Moriss (No moriss please)

[Plaid]

Max, by the way, if you think about Sealion, britts (as well as USSR/Germany) have really huge chance to spawn partisan in unoccupied cities and resources in 2.0 version. If you keep UK cities with no garrisons 1-2 of them will change owner literally every turn.
Its also strongly not adviced to place any naval unit or transport into ungarrisoned UK port.

[zechi]

What is the consequences of attacking Russia only in 1942? Do they get full production at an earlier date and are they too strong to do anything about if the germans wait that long??? List as many conseuences as you can and i'll make my decision on what i want to do based on your comments / advice.

Expect the Russians to have more then 2000 PP at their disposal. Therefore the Russian will have a good and strong army. Because of the new limits concerning some units, you will have to expect a mixed Red Army. Furthermore, the Soviets tech levels will of course not be as good as the German tech levels. Nevertheless, as the war effort rules were changed in favor of the Soviets/US, the tech levels will not be bad either.

However, I doubt that the Soviets will be able to launch a full scale offensive against the Axis in 1942. I was in such as situation in a game against Massina (I played the Allies). As Massinas attempt invade Britain failed (should be a warning for you that Operation Sealion can take a bad course), he build a solid Axis defensive line against the soviets with INF mostly. In 1942 I could not launch any serious offensive against the Axis, as the first few turns are necessary to organise the Red Army and only in Winter 1942/1943 you should expect serious offensive action in the east. However, in 1942 I would attack Finland as the Soviet player as you only need some air units and a few INF to take Finland out, if the Axis player did not reinforce with German units. This is especially true as the Finnish will offer an armistice if they lose too much units and cities (read carefully the manual).

By the way you will find the AAR of my game with Massina here:

viewtopic.php?t=22609

I especially wonder what kind of Barbarossa you can have in 1942? Is it weak or else the Russians are super strong?

Firstly, it really depends on the turn the Soviets activate. The Soviets can activate already in April 1942. Therefore, if you intend to launch a 1942 Barbarossa you will have to attack on the latest April turn in 1942 if you do not want to take the risk that the Soviets activate before you could DOW them. However, in April 1942 the chances are good, that there will be still bad weather, perhaps even severe winter in the east. Therefore, it could be difficult to start Barbarossa because of the weather.

Nevertheless, it should be possible to take out the border cities. The Soviets cannot reinforce them before they activate as new units cannot be placed in eastern Poland, the Baltics etc. If I would do a 1942 Barbarossa I would go for the border cities and stay outside of the severe winter zone (could be difficult in the southern sector). The Soviets will have a hard time to overcome the Axis outside of the severe winter zone in the winter of 1942/1943. As soon as you have fair weather in 1943 you could go for an offensive (most likely not on the whole front, but perhaps in one sector).

[massina_nz]

Max, one thing to take into account with Sealion - it is easy for the Brits to re-inforce London with the new swap units function. It made it more difficult to take London in my game with Zechi.

I've never read the AAR, but one thing that probably wasn't mentioned, was that on the first turn I invaded Spain, the rules for minor country rail movement and weather rules for the Med changed, making the conquest of Spain appreciably difficult, I was stuffed from then on. Such is the whims of Beta testing.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

Also notice that we've changed the supply situation in Great Britain. Both Liverpool and London provide supply level 5 so you need to take both to prevent UK from adding reinforcements in England/Scotland.

That means it's not over when you take London. You need to push for Liverpool as well. Only then can you mop up the remaining forcing and send the main force back to the continent.

[supermax]

Very quiet turn and an unusual one for me. I repaired most of my units...



Only one attack on that battleship running around thinking itself safe in port hehehe.

Morriss is only giving me scraps so there isnt any reasons for me to attack garrisons and loose steps. I'll wait for good weather i am in a good position to finish the french off rapidly now.

[supermax]

Max, one thing to take into account with Sealion - it is easy for the Brits to re-inforce London with the new swap units function. It made it more difficult to take London in my game with Zechi.

I've never read the AAR, but one thing that probably wasn't mentioned, was that on the first turn I invaded Spain, the rules for minor country rail movement and weather rules for the Med changed, making the conquest of Spain appreciably difficult, I was stuffed from then on. Such is the whims of Beta testing.

Damn Mass, that is something. It isnt like it used to be: land in England and youve got it... Well, still am not sure about attempting it. If i do, it will be because i have till 42 to do it.

Also in Stauffenberg's post, Liverpool needs to be taken. So in the MOD going for England means going for the Russians in 1942 like it used to be in World in Flames.

[supermax]

What is the consequences of attacking Russia only in 1942? Do they get full production at an earlier date and are they too strong to do anything about if the germans wait that long??? List as many conseuences as you can and i'll make my decision on what i want to do based on your comments / advice.

Expect the Russians to have more then 2000 PP at their disposal. Therefore the Russian will have a good and strong army. Because of the new limits concerning some units, you will have to expect a mixed Red Army. Furthermore, the Soviets tech levels will of course not be as good as the German tech levels. Nevertheless, as the war effort rules were changed in favor of the Soviets/US, the tech levels will not be bad either.

However, I doubt that the Soviets will be able to launch a full scale offensive against the Axis in 1942. I was in such as situation in a game against Massina (I played the Allies). As Massinas attempt invade Britain failed (should be a warning for you that Operation Sealion can take a bad course), he build a solid Axis defensive line against the soviets with INF mostly. In 1942 I could not launch any serious offensive against the Axis, as the first few turns are necessary to organise the Red Army and only in Winter 1942/1943 you should expect serious offensive action in the east. However, in 1942 I would attack Finland as the Soviet player as you only need some air units and a few INF to take Finland out, if the Axis player did not reinforce with German units. This is especially true as the Finnish will offer an armistice if they lose too much units and cities (read carefully the manual).

By the way you will find the AAR of my game with Massina here:

viewtopic.php?t=22609

I especially wonder what kind of Barbarossa you can have in 1942? Is it weak or else the Russians are super strong?

Firstly, it really depends on the turn the Soviets activate. The Soviets can activate already in April 1942. Therefore, if you intend to launch a 1942 Barbarossa you will have to attack on the latest April turn in 1942 if you do not want to take the risk that the Soviets activate before you could DOW them. However, in April 1942 the chances are good, that there will be still bad weather, perhaps even severe winter in the east. Therefore, it could be difficult to start Barbarossa because of the weather.

Nevertheless, it should be possible to take out the border cities. The Soviets cannot reinforce them before they activate as new units cannot be placed in eastern Poland, the Baltics etc. If I would do a 1942 Barbarossa I would go for the border cities and stay outside of the severe winter zone (could be difficult in the southern sector). The Soviets will have a hard time to overcome the Axis outside of the severe winter zone in the winter of 1942/1943. As soon as you have fair weather in 1943 you could go for an offensive (most likely not on the whole front, but perhaps in one sector).

Thanks for the advice... This make me think of alternative strategies... Hard thing to do. In WIF it used to be still doable, but it doesnt seem to be in this MOD. Unless you really hit the Russians hard in 1942? I wonder how strong the germans can be if they wait another year???

[supermax]

Max, by the way, if you think about Sealion, britts (as well as USSR/Germany) have really huge chance to spawn partisan in unoccupied cities and resources in 2.0 version. If you keep UK cities with no garrisons 1-2 of them will change owner literally every turn.
Its also strongly not adviced to place any naval unit or transport into ungarrisoned UK port.

I see...

Damn!

[supermax]

Well well.

Just read plaid vs moriss aar...

Interesting to read. To think i almost fell for it.

I will now be implementing an interesting new idea in the next few turns, well see how that turns out.

Lets just say that attacking russia in 1942 is now out of the question.

When is the latest i can delay french armistice or refused armistice?

[Peter Stauffenberg]

There is about 4% chance to spawn a partisan in each empty Russian, German, UK or US city or resource.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

The French can thwart your plans to delay the French Armistice offer by emptying Paris after June. Then France will offer the armistice.

So if Morris wants to force you to make the decision he makes a suicide attack with the Paris unit or moves out if it's not surrounded.

Attacking Russia in 1942 is certainly possible, but probably not against very good Allied players.

Also remember that when Germany enters Iraq then Russia will cancel the Baku oil trade agreement with Germany so you lose as much oil as you gain in Iraq until you DoW Russia and lose the oil anyway.

[supermax]

The French can thwart your plans to delay the French Armistice offer by emptying Paris after June. Then France will offer the armistice.

So if Morris wants to force you to make the decision he makes a suicide attack with the Paris unit or moves out if it's not surrounded.

Attacking Russia in 1942 is certainly possible, but probably not against very good Allied players.

Also remember that when Germany enters Iraq then Russia will cancel the Baku oil trade agreement with Germany so you lose as much oil as you gain in Iraq until you DoW Russia and lose the oil anyway.

Good to know... I plan to have nailed the frenchies before that anyway, surrender or armistice or whatever they call it

Also, i am not planning to go into the Middle East, this is a fools errand.

[Plaid]

Also notice that we've changed the supply situation in Great Britain. Both Liverpool and London provide supply level 5 so you need to take both to prevent UK from adding reinforcements in England/Scotland.

That means it's not over when you take London. You need to push for Liverpool as well. Only then can you mop up the remaining forcing and send the main force back to the continent.

I believe if you block London without capturing, supply outside of city will be 3 as in old good times. I guess I have seen it somewhere.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

Yes, you may be correct. At least Liverpool allows for placement of new countries in cities linked to Liverpool

[supermax]

Yes, you may be correct. At least Liverpool allows for placement of new countries in cities linked to Liverpool

No screen capture this turn, sorry.

Mud weather, no action. Germans are just about to finish off the frenchs.

[supermax]

Another british DD sunk... Might come to be useful down the road, but my fleet is becoming seriously depleted. I commit the DD this turn. We'll see how that turns out!

Damn Moriss has fortified France big time. This will take some time!!!! The whole of 1940 i fear!!!

Hehehe fun times

[supermax]

Time is of the essence here. Moriss wants me to play by his timetable by delaying me in france and doing a 1941 Sealion, thus attacking Russan late in 1942? I wont oblige. Lets try to set a timetable of my own now.

[Roberto]

....Well played comrade!!!!
Regards!

[Plaid]

Problem is that Morris can ship back BEF (or even some French) to Britain like no problem and crush the landed forces where they are weaker (not 5 supply, not complete air support cover etc).
Another problem is that he can sink your depleted kriegsmarine if he have anything in northern ports like Scapa Flow - i see only 1 BB spotted (or did you sunk some?).
And dont you think, that Morris already get what he want - delay german lab build and force you to spend many PPs? If it is true that he don't build labs for UK, they will become more and more useless with time passing, so he is interested in early engagement with UK of any sort.
Whats the turn now? May 1940?

[supermax]

Problem is that Morris can ship back BEF (or even some French) to Britain like no problem and crush the landed forces where they are weaker (not 5 supply, not complete air support cover etc).
Another problem is that he can sink your depleted kriegsmarine if he have anything in northern ports like Scapa Flow - i see only 1 BB spotted (or did you sunk some?).
And dont you think, that Morris already get what he want - delay german lab build and force you to spend many PPs? If it is true that he don't build labs for UK, they will become more and more useless with time passing, so he is interested in early engagement with UK of any sort.
Whats the turn now? May 1940?

March 1940... I am still early. If he ships back BEF to England, then i crush France easily... One way or the other i'll have him.

And besides, i said i was delaying research a little. I already have 6 pts of research invested.

Dont worry Plaid it'll all work out!