Who Says There are Too Many Partisans?

Morris · Post by **Morris** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:42 pm

it sounds reasonable. but that will make the axis player too miserable in Russia .

rkr1958 · Post by **rkr1958** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:45 pm

leridano wrote:I´m also fine with the current partisan system but, as I have posted above, to include some kind of influence of the partisan activity in rail network would add a realistic and historical factor in CEAW GS: partisans had the german rail network as one of the main objectives to attack. The more partisans the more german rait network would be affected by sabotage actions: 4-5 active partisan units of the same country in a turn seems to be enough to disturb german army movements by rail in that country.

Victor, partisans do have an indirect impact on rail already. There are often times that I have to rail a corps or a couple of garrisons in place to deal with them. So in effect the partisans are costing me 3 or 4 rail points that turn.

PinkPanzer · Post by **PinkPanzer** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:21 am

rkr1958 wrote:
PinkPanzer wrote:As axis, I'm a big fan of infantry corps partisans in GS2. Not.
There aren't any infantry corps partisans in GS. They're all garrisons.

In GS all partisans were garrisons, but in GS2, I've seen infantry corps partisans appear while playing against the ai.
Here's a screenshot.

Here's another inf corp partisan in France:

rkr1958 · Post by **rkr1958** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:12 am

PinkPanzer wrote:
rkr1958 wrote:
PinkPanzer wrote:As axis, I'm a big fan of infantry corps partisans in GS2. Not.
There aren't any infantry corps partisans in GS. They're all garrisons.
In GS all partisans were garrisons, but in GS2, I've seen infantry corps partisans appear while playing against the ai.
Here's a screenshot.

Don't be fooled by the image. Those partisans are garrisons. For example, look at the the differences in the stats between a UK corps and garrison below from the start of the 1940 scenario. Your partisan stats are in line with the garrison stats.

AC67 · Post by **AC67** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:53 pm

rkr1958 wrote:
PinkPanzer wrote:
rkr1958 wrote:There aren't any infantry corps partisans in GS. They're all garrisons.
In GS all partisans were garrisons, but in GS2, I've seen infantry corps partisans appear while playing against the ai.
Here's a screenshot.
Don't be fooled by the image. Those partisans are garrisons. For example, look at the the differences in the stats between a UK corps and garrison below from the start of the 1940 scenario. Your partisan stats are in line with the garrison stats.

That certainly is true, but the difference is that "real" garrison-partisans could be blocked from further moving simply by getting a friendly unit next to them. Now, I have a case as Allies in Poland in a currently ongoing PBEM where an "Infantry partisan corps" adiacent to a German unit could move away and take, I think, Breslau. This is quite a difference because it means that the Axis player HAS to garrison all occupied cities.

AC

Plaid · Post by **Plaid** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:33 pm

This partisan is NOT corps, they have very same 1 movement point with 0 supply.
Reason why they move like this is simple - AI cheats with movement in enemy ZoC a lot.

_Augustus_ · Post by **_Augustus_** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:59 pm

Hey,

For AC, you couldn't lock partisans in place even in the previous versions with a single unit IF it was fair weather. The partisan has 1 movement point and can use it to move away from your unit to clear/city/resource hex. City hex cost 1 point to enter.

When the weather is bad the 1 MP partisan unit can't move away from you because to enter a city now costs 2 movement points. Which the partisan unit doesn't have.

But the partisan unit with 1 movement point can enter the city(which again costs 2 points to enter) in bad weather if you have no units adjacent to the partisan unit. This is due to fact that every unit can move ONE hex regardless of how many movement points they have or what kind of hex they are entering IF they start their move NOT in a enemy's ZOC.

You can lock a partisan unit in place even with a single unit in fair weather or to be more precise you can restrict it from moving to rougher terrain which cost more than 1 movement points to enter.

Maybe those will help you to decipher what's going on...

_augustus_ //Plaid, does AI really cheat with movement? Maybe just not fully applying the ZoC and movement rules to the situation? <-- A sincere question as I haven't played against AI in that much, but I never spotted cheating. Any examples?

Plaid · Post by **Plaid** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:04 pm

Its clear evidence how AI cheats with ZoC in old Ronnie's AAR.
I can't remember where exactly, but it was.

_Augustus_ · Post by **_Augustus_** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:37 pm

Plaid wrote:Its clear evidence how AI cheats with ZoC in old Ronnie's AAR.
I can't remember where exactly, but it was.

This one? From turn 38 viewtopic.php?t=17369

No cheating there as far I can see. The garrison(with 1 MP) started out of enemy ZOC and therefore could move one hex regardless the target hex cost(3 MPs on this case).

Maybe you were refering to some other example?

_augustus_ //While does AI cheat regards production etc movement just seems unlikely place for it to do it.

rkr1958 · Post by **rkr1958** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:02 pm

_Augustus_ wrote:
Plaid wrote:Its clear evidence how AI cheats with ZoC in old Ronnie's AAR.
I can't remember where exactly, but it was.
This one? From turn 38 viewtopic.php?t=17369

No cheating there as far I can see. The garrison(with 1 MP) started out of enemy ZOC and therefore could move one hex regardless the target hex cost(3 MPs on this case).

Maybe you were refering to some other example?

_augustus_ //While does AI cheat regards production etc movement just seems unlikely place for it to do it.

At the time I thought this was cheating; but it was my misunderstanding of zoc rules. This was a lesson I learned the hard way in a partial AAR I did in a game against Neil where he was able to do the same move and use a French garrison to help destroy one of my air units.

See: viewtopic.php?p=176422#176422

My misunderstanding of have ZOC's work resulted in the loss of one of my fighters. And, the preoccupation with the loss of my fighter resulted in me overlooking the Med, so I didn't do any moves there. Other than that, the turn went pretty well.

_Augustus_ · Post by **_Augustus_** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:13 pm

Hey that looks somewhat familar! Your AAR might very well be where I first learned the fact and movement started to look more logical

Thanks for sharing your epiphany at the time!

_Augustus_

JimWC · Post by **JimWC** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:27 am

rkr1958 wrote:
PinkPanzer wrote:As axis, I'm a big fan of infantry corps partisans in GS2. Not.
There aren't any infantry corps partisans in GS. They're all garrisons.

Well, in the 2 games of GS 2 that I'm playing. ALL of the partisans are corps. Is this a bug?

pk867 · Post by **pk867** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:42 am

Hi,
The country with the most troublesome partisans are given a different graphic (a larger group), but still have the stats

of a garrison. So all Major powers, Yugoslavia, Greece, Poland, Spain, Sweden, Turkey.