Just started the new Beta now.
On turn 3 it's raining and air units have a 0 spotting range - ie they can't see the hexes ajacent to them.
The problem is I wanted to move to the nearest enemy airfield to chase after some polish fighters (who weren't pinned by my ZOC the previous turn - not sure if that's intended?) - I click on the enemy airfield and my fighter stopped on the tile ajacent - I assume there's a polish fighter there not being revealed. However I moved a second fighter by clicking on the airfield again and it stopped ON TOP of the first fighter.
I like the idea of not being able to use the airforce for ground recon during off turns - however they should still reveal ajacent air units so as to provide positive feedback as to why your unit is stopping as well as prevent friendly units from accidently stacking up.
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Very useful feedback. Our solution for air units in rain/snow needs refinement.boredatwork wrote:I like the idea of not being able to use the airforce for ground recon during off turns - however they should still reveal ajacent air units so as to provide positive feedback as to why your unit is stopping as well as prevent friendly units from accidently stacking up.
#11 Entrenched Me-109s
I cropped the image, but I assure you I did not photoshop the numbers.
The 109 you start with in the Poland campaign starts with 1 entrenchment. If you fly it over a 'forest' hex, it will gain 1 more entrenchment for a total of 2. Buying a new 109 on an airfield will also grant it 1 entrenchment on the following turn.
I cropped the image, but I assure you I did not photoshop the numbers.
The 109 you start with in the Poland campaign starts with 1 entrenchment. If you fly it over a 'forest' hex, it will gain 1 more entrenchment for a total of 2. Buying a new 109 on an airfield will also grant it 1 entrenchment on the following turn.
#12 Tactical bomber can initiate attack, but can't fire.
I said to myself, wow, my stats rock that Polish Fighter... Why is it 0-3? (BTW still backwards
)
Oh that's why, apparently I can shoot, but I can't actually shoot.
Also, apparently that Polish fighter was entrenched as well. Problem #11 again.
I said to myself, wow, my stats rock that Polish Fighter... Why is it 0-3? (BTW still backwards
)Oh that's why, apparently I can shoot, but I can't actually shoot.
Also, apparently that Polish fighter was entrenched as well. Problem #11 again.
It's not backward. It represents attack efficiency = "expected damage done". Throughout the game high values = better values, so the same is true for the combat predictor.Why is it 0-3? (BTW still backwards Razz )
But yeah I'm failry sure a BF110 would've been better than that Polish fighter? They're "heavy fighter" class.
I touched on the 'backwards' issue on my thread, but I'll open a new thread for that for anyone who wants to discuss it.
I'm not really pointing out that the 110 was historically stronger than the P11, more the fact that "Air Attack = 8" is being overwritten by "Can't Attack = 0"
Higher values aren't always better. You don't want a high right number.
I'm not really pointing out that the 110 was historically stronger than the P11, more the fact that "Air Attack = 8" is being overwritten by "Can't Attack = 0"
Higher values aren't always better. You don't want a high right number.
Last edited by Kerensky on Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
It looks like you fixed the problem of units in transport retaining their stats and being able to shore bombard, but now there's a new problem.
How do you find out the stats of units loaded in transport....?
For example, Norway Scenario playing as the allies. There's a unit called QF 25 pounder. Where I land this unit matters to me and depends on what kind of unit it is. Is it an ATG gun or artillery gun? For people who aren't familiar with the Ww2 genre, more casual players if you will, they won't even be able to make a guess between ATG and Artillery, for all they know QF means Quad Fortification, not Quick Fire.
EDIT: Turns out it is a long range artillery unit.
How do you find out the stats of units loaded in transport....?
For example, Norway Scenario playing as the allies. There's a unit called QF 25 pounder. Where I land this unit matters to me and depends on what kind of unit it is. Is it an ATG gun or artillery gun? For people who aren't familiar with the Ww2 genre, more casual players if you will, they won't even be able to make a guess between ATG and Artillery, for all they know QF means Quad Fortification, not Quick Fire.
EDIT: Turns out it is a long range artillery unit.
Last edited by Kerensky on Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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boredatwork
- Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
- Posts: 314
- Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:39 pm
Had an unusual bug -
Basically on the airfield was the Polish tank that lurks around the middle city, wounded in the previous turn. My Me110 had killed the artillery unit on the river. My PzII then further wounded the tank. At this point I moved my 16th Infantry to the position shown and attacked the tank - the tank was forced back into the empty river hex and became the "14th Polish Inf".
The next attack I made was with the 39th Inf into the city - the predicted results were in my favour but the result 2 losses for no kills seemed wrong - so I opened up the combat log to discover that the polish inf defending the city was also "14th Polish Inf" and according to the log should have suffered 7 kills?
If it would be of any use to you I have a save game file at this point.
On a semi related note - would it be possible to record the combat logs to a text file in some fashion?
I've encountered invincible units before - seemingly always in conjunction with river tiles - but by the time I realise there is a problem it's impossible to check the results of previous turns to confirm that it was a bug, as opposed to badly designed mechanics, or just some extremely lucky dice rolls.
Basically on the airfield was the Polish tank that lurks around the middle city, wounded in the previous turn. My Me110 had killed the artillery unit on the river. My PzII then further wounded the tank. At this point I moved my 16th Infantry to the position shown and attacked the tank - the tank was forced back into the empty river hex and became the "14th Polish Inf".
The next attack I made was with the 39th Inf into the city - the predicted results were in my favour but the result 2 losses for no kills seemed wrong - so I opened up the combat log to discover that the polish inf defending the city was also "14th Polish Inf" and according to the log should have suffered 7 kills?
If it would be of any use to you I have a save game file at this point.
On a semi related note - would it be possible to record the combat logs to a text file in some fashion?
I've encountered invincible units before - seemingly always in conjunction with river tiles - but by the time I realise there is a problem it's impossible to check the results of previous turns to confirm that it was a bug, as opposed to badly designed mechanics, or just some extremely lucky dice rolls.
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boredatwork
- Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
- Posts: 314
- Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:39 pm
All my bug reports never get special mention. QQ!
#15 and #16 added.
I've seen #15 myself I think the stacking/invisible unit bug is affecting the AI now, after it was fixed on the player end.
It's just an educated guess, but I have a feeling it's going something like this:
AI buys or moves unit into Hex X. AI is buying, moving, or is forced to place another unit in Hex X.
When you battle unit in Hex X, you fight the visible or 'top' unit.
However, the moment you battle unit in Hex X to the point where it is forced to retreat, the hidden unit responds. Why does it respond? Because the game gave a command where 'unit in Hex X must retreat to Hex Y'
Now your top level unit has it's action resolved, deals damage, dealt damage, and retreats. But the game sees another unit in Hex X. So now that unit also deals damage, and is dealt damage, and also follows the command to 'retreat to hex Y' because it too was identified as existing in Hex X.
The stack is now reversed, because the top unit was forced out first, and then the bottom hidden unit was resolved and now forced on top, thus giving the appearance of a morphing unit.
I have a sneaking suspicion if you're able to make that 4 strength inf sitting in the river retreat again instead of killing it in one shot, you'll see a similar 'morphing' and completely wrong battle prediction.
If the combat log would record more than just the last single engagement, I am certain it would also support my theory.
#15 and #16 added.
I've seen #15 myself I think the stacking/invisible unit bug is affecting the AI now, after it was fixed on the player end.
It's just an educated guess, but I have a feeling it's going something like this:
AI buys or moves unit into Hex X. AI is buying, moving, or is forced to place another unit in Hex X.
When you battle unit in Hex X, you fight the visible or 'top' unit.
However, the moment you battle unit in Hex X to the point where it is forced to retreat, the hidden unit responds. Why does it respond? Because the game gave a command where 'unit in Hex X must retreat to Hex Y'
Now your top level unit has it's action resolved, deals damage, dealt damage, and retreats. But the game sees another unit in Hex X. So now that unit also deals damage, and is dealt damage, and also follows the command to 'retreat to hex Y' because it too was identified as existing in Hex X.
The stack is now reversed, because the top unit was forced out first, and then the bottom hidden unit was resolved and now forced on top, thus giving the appearance of a morphing unit.
I have a sneaking suspicion if you're able to make that 4 strength inf sitting in the river retreat again instead of killing it in one shot, you'll see a similar 'morphing' and completely wrong battle prediction.
If the combat log would record more than just the last single engagement, I am certain it would also support my theory.
I've looked through the topic and indeed it looks like I'm ignoring you lately. :-/ I'm so sorry. The truth is, your bug reports are very useful, and even when they are more like feature requests than actual bugs, I often agree with you and put them on my todo list (as was with move trajectory indication, for example). There is a positive side to this though: when I strongly disagree with you, I usually say that right away.Kerensky wrote:All my bug reports never get special mention. QQ!
About the disappearing units, probably there are several places where this can happen, and I only fixed some of them in the current build. Mechanism should be the same in all cases: unit remains in unit list, but is erased from the hex (each hex keeps track of units which are located in it). So "logically" the unit is there, but it is not seen on the map and is ignored by a number of game algorithms which look at the map directly, not at unit list.
Ahhhhh, it's cool. 
I knew you weren't completely ignoring me cause you did sticky the thread. Besides, with the amount of posts and the length that they are turning in to, who can blame you? 
Seriously though, if you don't consider some of these issues 'bugs', I can shuffle them off to the second post in the thread and people can discuss them elsewhere.
#2, #7, #10 strike me as ones you are most at odds with.
Sorry Lordzimoa, I got caught by the 'bottom of the page' problem I have with forums and missed your report.
It's #17 now.
I knew you weren't completely ignoring me cause you did sticky the thread. Besides, with the amount of posts and the length that they are turning in to, who can blame you? Seriously though, if you don't consider some of these issues 'bugs', I can shuffle them off to the second post in the thread and people can discuss them elsewhere.
#2, #7, #10 strike me as ones you are most at odds with.
Sorry Lordzimoa, I got caught by the 'bottom of the page' problem I have with forums and missed your report.
It's #17 now.
Well, I can tell you my thoughts about these.Kerensky wrote: #2, #7, #10 strike me as ones you are most at odds with.
#2:
This bugs contains several "sub-bugs" and the description is quite cryptic, so this is not an easy one. So, my thoughts on deploy aspect in general:
As I said, I think it is a requirement that each scen must have the number of deployment hexes bigger then the number of core slots. I have no intention to force the player to deploy his core in chunks, unless he specifically wants to act this way.
Also, as I said, purchase must be possible on deployment (intermission) turn. This is a bug or rather a "missing feature". But in this case units purchased on deploy turn should be treated the same as other core units: they use deployment hexes specified for the scen.
Now, the question is, if you did not deploy all units on the deployment turn, where should they be deployed? Shall they be treated the same as newly purchased units, or use initial deployment hexes? The answer depends on the final decision about where and how many units you can purchase. As it stands now, if we allow deploy in the same hexes used for purchase, you can easily teleport half of your core to a distant city, and this is something we don't want. Purchase in a remote city implies there is some infrastructure to deliver a fresh unit there. But this infrastructure should have some limits, it should not be possible to move half of your army this way. That is the reason why within existing rules units can be deployed only on initial hexes, on any turn, and I think it is logical.
But if we limit the number of purchases in a city or add some other limitations, we can change the rules and treat any units deployed from reserve on turn 1, or later, the same as newly purchased units.
#7: it is too early to plan any action on this one. On one hand, if we make left/right click interface (which nobody seems to object to?), the problem is 99% solved. On the other hand, I may decide to scrap current recon system altogether. I'll do more tests, but so far I'm not completely satisfied with it. In any case, I don't think that undo for recons will solve the problem you've described on its own. Recons spot units too often, and in that case you have no undo, even if you moved your recon by mistake.
#10: I don't consider this a top priority, and so did not give it much thought yet, but on the first glance, if you embark and disembark on the same hex in the same turn, we may well treat this as undo and don't spend unit's actions. Then this would be true for all kinds of embark (sea, air, rail).
Fair enough, #2 does require quite an overhaul.
For #7, I do believe left/right click will help, but it won't solve all the problems. For example, you still won't be able to use recon units for combat. Why? Because when you move a normal unit and don't like the prediction, you can undo the unit's move. If you move a recon, don't like the prediction... tough luck. That's another problem.
#10. You know what that sounds like to me? Exactly how mounting and unmounting from truck transport works. That also sounds like the most optimal way for it to function.
For #7, I do believe left/right click will help, but it won't solve all the problems. For example, you still won't be able to use recon units for combat. Why? Because when you move a normal unit and don't like the prediction, you can undo the unit's move. If you move a recon, don't like the prediction... tough luck. That's another problem.
#10. You know what that sounds like to me? Exactly how mounting and unmounting from truck transport works. That also sounds like the most optimal way for it to function.
#18
Cannot buy new core units in tutorial campaign. Looks like something broke, because I'm sitting at 2 core units available, plenty of prestige, all my core deployed, but units in the buy menu are tinted red and the purchase button is greyed out.
Scenario 3 is even worse, now it's 5 available, but still tinted red and greyed out button.
Cannot buy new core units in tutorial campaign. Looks like something broke, because I'm sitting at 2 core units available, plenty of prestige, all my core deployed, but units in the buy menu are tinted red and the purchase button is greyed out.
Scenario 3 is even worse, now it's 5 available, but still tinted red and greyed out button.
Thanks for reporting. As a side note it is possible to buy in tutorial stand alone scenarios.Kerensky wrote:#18
Cannot buy new core units in tutorial campaign. Looks like something broke, because I'm sitting at 2 core units available, plenty of prestige, all my core deployed, but units in the buy menu are tinted red and the purchase button is greyed out.
Scenario 3 is even worse, now it's 5 available, but still tinted red and greyed out button.