AAR: Operation Barbarossa-Fortress Europa(no Massina please)

After action reports for Commander Europe at War.

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joerock22
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Post by joerock22 »

PinkPanzer wrote:Halladay throws a nohitter vs Joey Votto and the Reds.
We all questioned it when the Phillies dumped Cliff Lee and picked up Halladay instead. Now we know why they did it.

Just so we don't hijack this into a baseball thread, I also agree with what Pink Panzer said about knocking the Americans out of the war. But you can only really do that if you destroy or nearly destroy the Royal Navy. And you need a decent element of surprise because your opponent can put troops in many hexes over there.

So I think right now you just have to put the American idea on the back burner until the Royal Navy is crippled. If you can do that, then you can consider it again.
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Post by supermax »

joerock22 wrote:
PinkPanzer wrote:Halladay throws a nohitter vs Joey Votto and the Reds.
We all questioned it when the Phillies dumped Cliff Lee and picked up Halladay instead. Now we know why they did it.

Just so we don't hijack this into a baseball thread, I also agree with what Pink Panzer said about knocking the Americans out of the war. But you can only really do that if you destroy or nearly destroy the Royal Navy. And you need a decent element of surprise because your opponent can put troops in many hexes over there.

So I think right now you just have to put the American idea on the back burner until the Royal Navy is crippled. If you can do that, then you can consider it again.
Well, guys, it would all be nice and all, but, really, whats the fun in redoing the same thing as my last great game? Nahhh i have other plans in mind. I have not seen much succes in GS for taking the oilfields in the Middle east and i intend to show how its properly done. Once i have them , the rest of my game wont be hindered by oil shortages.
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Turn 7: France Surrenders

Post by supermax »

The French capital finally surrenders. Hitler is jubilant and very happya bout the outcome. Now come the serious part of this game.

An ultimatum has been sent to Franco, which wasnt responded positicly. In come operation snakehold, the campaign to liberate the Iberian peninsula.

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PinkPanzer
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Post by PinkPanzer »

joerock22 wrote:
PinkPanzer wrote:Halladay throws a nohitter vs Joey Votto and the Reds.
We all questioned it when the Phillies dumped Cliff Lee and picked up Halladay instead. Now we know why they did it.

Just so we don't hijack this into a baseball thread, I also agree with what Pink Panzer said about knocking the Americans out of the war. But you can only really do that if you destroy or nearly destroy the Royal Navy. And you need a decent element of surprise because your opponent can put troops in many hexes over there.

So I think right now you just have to put the American idea on the back burner until the Royal Navy is crippled. If you can do that, then you can consider it again.
As a Jays fan, who loves Halladay, I know what he is: a pitching robot with a super consistent release point and superb control.

Conventional german pp spending strategy is: 5 research, fighter tac, 4 more research then 3 subs with naval focus on subs is predictable; and the worst thing in warfare/wargames is being predictable.
So gaining axis naval parity through early builds is always a good option, because the critical vulnerability of the allies is that every thing has to be transported in sea transports before it can amphib invade.
In the summer of 1940 America has not earned much pp's because their war preparedness percentage is so low. Plus they will in alll probability bought some research. Plus their manpower is yellow and not far from orange.
Wondering if that UK sub is watching your transports depart from port sucks.
Last edited by PinkPanzer on Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Indirect tactics, efficiently applied, are as inexhaustible as Heaven and Earth, unending as the flow of rivers and streams; like the sun and moon, they end but to begin anew; like the four seasons, they pass away but to return once more. Sun Tzu
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Post by PinkPanzer »

supermax wrote:
joerock22 wrote:
PinkPanzer wrote:Halladay throws a nohitter vs Joey Votto and the Reds.
We all questioned it when the Phillies dumped Cliff Lee and picked up Halladay instead. Now we know why they did it.

Just so we don't hijack this into a baseball thread, I also agree with what Pink Panzer said about knocking the Americans out of the war. But you can only really do that if you destroy or nearly destroy the Royal Navy. And you need a decent element of surprise because your opponent can put troops in many hexes over there.

So I think right now you just have to put the American idea on the back burner until the Royal Navy is crippled. If you can do that, then you can consider it again.
Well, guys, it would all be nice and all, but, really, whats the fun in redoing the same thing as my last great game? Nahhh i have other plans in mind. I have not seen much succes in GS for taking the oilfields in the Middle east and i intend to show how its properly done. Once i have them , the rest of my game wont be hindered by oil shortages.
I liked the bypassing holland and going straight for belgium and the quick french collapse. Well done supermax.
It will be very interesting to see how fast you can capture the middle east oil fields and how well italian subs preying on allied transports and convoys do.
Indirect tactics, efficiently applied, are as inexhaustible as Heaven and Earth, unending as the flow of rivers and streams; like the sun and moon, they end but to begin anew; like the four seasons, they pass away but to return once more. Sun Tzu
supermax
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Post by supermax »

PinkPanzer wrote:
supermax wrote:
joerock22 wrote: We all questioned it when the Phillies dumped Cliff Lee and picked up Halladay instead. Now we know why they did it.

Just so we don't hijack this into a baseball thread, I also agree with what Pink Panzer said about knocking the Americans out of the war. But you can only really do that if you destroy or nearly destroy the Royal Navy. And you need a decent element of surprise because your opponent can put troops in many hexes over there.

So I think right now you just have to put the American idea on the back burner until the Royal Navy is crippled. If you can do that, then you can consider it again.
Well, guys, it would all be nice and all, but, really, whats the fun in redoing the same thing as my last great game? Nahhh i have other plans in mind. I have not seen much succes in GS for taking the oilfields in the Middle east and i intend to show how its properly done. Once i have them , the rest of my game wont be hindered by oil shortages.
I liked the bypassing holland and going straight for belgium and the quick french collapse. Well done supermax.
It will be very interesting to see how fast you can capture the middle east oil fields and how well italian subs preying on allied transports and convoys do.
Thanks man! Well, we will see about my level of succes, but i think i can make it work, even if i will strech things to their limits... Barbarossa is going to be a major challenge, i am oging to be speard thin. Now on the Italians navy, i am more thinking of sending the german one in the MED to make sure i have naval superiority in the Canal Vicinity. This will not be a conventinal north african campaign.
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Turn 8: Delays

Post by supermax »

Well, i guess my perfect plan was not going to be perfect! Massina occupied Bordeaux before France's fall. This will delay me by at least 3 turns for my spanish attack.

At this point i am still on time. My gut feeling is that Massina has not commited the british for a reason: he is keeping his forces for a potential sealion. Well, he might be well served! I am, for sure, going to pounce on the british as i will have a whole year to do so. we will see who winds the grinding down battle of attrition. Success or no success in the British Isles will make for a nice diversion from the MEd where i also intend to act decisively.

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Turn 9. Summer again but nothing happening!

Post by supermax »

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Nothing really happening at this point, i hate in betwen operation lag...
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Turn 10: Still on the choke

Post by supermax »

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Turn 11: And into Spain!

Post by supermax »

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The spanish offensive is going on schedule, as best as could be expected. This is very difficult terrain! But in any case all his well. I think that Madrid will be our in 3 to 4 turns. That brings us to middle summer, gibraltar should fall before the bad season starts. Lets just hope i have enough time to implement the grand strategy i have been aiming at since th start of the game.

As to the British operation, i have been waiting for my 5th TAC which got produced this turn. I should be able to nicely surprise Massina in a couple of turns. No rush !

Apologies for not showing more of the real screen capture lets just say that i want to keep the surprise to everyone.
joerock22
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Re: Turn 11: And into Spain!

Post by joerock22 »

supermax wrote:Apologies for not showing more of the real screen capture lets just say that i want to keep the surprise to everyone.
Last time you did that, you invaded the Americas. I wonder what you have planned this time...
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Re: Turn 11: And into Spain!

Post by rkr1958 »

joerock22 wrote:
supermax wrote:Apologies for not showing more of the real screen capture lets just say that i want to keep the surprise to everyone.
Last time you did that, you invaded the Americas. I wonder what you have planned this time...
My bet is on "Close the Med". Vichy France is still neutral, which means Syria's still neutral. I wonder if Max is planning to invade Syria and Cyprus in order to outflank the Brits in Egypt?
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Turn 12: Spanish offensive continues

Post by supermax »

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Spanish offensive goes as planned. Massina is reacting in a way i wasnt anticipating meaning he seems to be sending reinforcements to the south. Where? MED? SPAIN? I'll be sure to stay tuned.



Seray, Southern Vichy France (2 days before the declaration of war with Spain )
The german recon patrol was hicking up the trail under the cover of night. At the moment, they were on the french side. The ground was firm because they were walking on a very old Roman road, going up and over the Pyrennées, and into Spain... Their mission was one of
reconnaissance, as the germans needed much needed intel on the disposition of spanish forces on the border. Hauptmann Gretch, standing tall over the special squad of 10 soldiers walking behind him, was wondering if they would fight in this moonless night. All was quiet except for the noises of the woods around them. Some little animals were lurking near, and ocasionally he would hear the clicks and bangs of weapons and boots.

They had landed in Seray via train with the approval of the Vichy French regime. They had then proceeded right into the woods towards the old roman road. It seemingly soo simple. Go up, then observe while on top of the mountain range (not very high in this area), then go down on the spanish side and try to get a feel for military preperations. German intelligence reported that there should not be too many troops, since Franco's forces were still very busy at repression, fillip up prisons and killings the reds as Franco called them.

3 week before the exact reason for the german patrol had unfolded...


Hendaye, France (3 weeks before the declaration of war)


With an hour late on schedule, the Spanish delegation arrived at the station of Hendaye. Following the presentations, for hitherto neither Hitler nor Franco had met personally, noth gathered in the parlor car of the Führer, at a rectangular table occupied besides the two leaders, the Minister of foreign Affairs, Ribbentrop, Field Marshal Keitel, Serrano and the two performers, prohibiting entry into the room to anyone else.

Hitler, after initial small talks and drinks with everyone, started to talk about the fact that Germany, as new master of Europe, was in an excellent position to takeover Britain and needed Spain to do its part to make this happen by letting german forces in for them to capture Gibraltar. The spanish delegation, listening to the opening speech, stayed uncommital. The meeting started and after several hours of talks and non-commitment from the Spanish, Hitler had had enough. Franco, far from being excited about the prospect of german boots on his soil, dodged the whole meeting and did not commit to help the Axis in anyway. At that point, right off the meeting while getting back into the train that would bring him back to Germany, the german dictator asked for maps of Spain... he also drew up quick orders to look into a number of detailed reconnaissance missions by officers wearing civilian clothing and studying the Rock from Spanish soil as well as seaward perspectives, the Wehrmacht in the summer and autumn of 1940 drew up detailed plans for Operation Felix, the assault on Gibraltar.

Operation Isabella: The invasion of Spain (march 1940)


Under the overall command of Field Marshal Walter von Reichenau, the German plan called for two INF corps and 2 ARM divisions (to be joined later by 2more mechanized division and another INf corps) to move into Spain in the middle of march 1940 without the consent of Generalissimo Francisco Franco, thus implicating an Invasion of Spain. The plan was simple: Move as much overwhelming force as possible and as fast as the machine would let them go, thrust directly for Madrid. Then, with just enough time to pause to take a breath, the germans would go south, to their real objective...

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Tnanks south of Zaragoza making good ground toward Madrid

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Infantry also advancing rapidly.

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Machine-gun position south of Zaragoza.

Operation Felix: Assault on Gibraltar (estimated july-august 1940)


German Plans )


General Rudolf Schmidt's XXXIX Corps would cover the flank of the Gibraltar assault against any British intervention: the 16th Motorized Division would concentrate in the vicinity of Valladolid, the 16th Panzer Division around Caceres, and the SS Totenkopf Division at Sevilla.

General Ludwig Kuebler's XLIX Corps would control the actual attack on the Rock. The assault forces would comprise the Grossdeutschland Infantry Regiment, the 98th Regiment of the 1st Mountain Division, 26 medium and heavy artillery battalions, three observation battalions, three engineer battalions, two smoke battalions, a detachment of 150 Brandenburgers, and up to 150 radio-controlled midget tanks ("Goliaths") packed with high explosives.

Two additional divisions were earmarked to cross the Straits of Gibraltar and garrison Morocco after the successful completion of Felix.

Due to the limited capacity of the Spanish rail system (which was not of the standard European gauge), much of the German ground force would move by road to its objectives.

The Luftwaffe would contribute Ju 88As, Stukas, Messerschmitts, three light AA battalions, and three heavy AA battalions. The Kriegsmarine would cooperate by using U-boats to interfere with British naval movement and emplacing coastal batteries to further discourage the Royal Navy.

From staging areas on the Spanish border near Bayonne, the ground troops would cross the frontier simultaneously with an initial raid by Ju 88As flying from Bordeaux against British vessels in the Gibraltar anchorage. While the Ju 88As carried out their mission, Ju 87s and Me 109s would transfer to airbases at Sevilla and finish the job of sinking British ships or driving them away from Gibraltar.

With its flank protected by XXXIX Corps, XLIX Corps would move into position for the attack. A tremendous barrage was scheduled to knock out every known defensive emplacement in the Rock, followed by the arrival of the Luftwaffe for a succession of Stuka strikes against positions still firing when the assault troops began moving forward. German artillery fire would methodically demolish surviving casemates while smoke-generating units shrouded Grossdeutschland and the 98th Mountain Regiment. Due to the extremely limited frontage of the position, only those two regiments plus supporting engineers would be committed in the actual assault.

Meanwhile, the Brandenburgers -- disguised as sailors abandoning a sinking ship -- intended to land inside British defenses in small boats and clear the way for the assault troops


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German bombers over Zaragoza[/b]
Blathergut
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Post by Blathergut »

super...I have run through your first two turns multiple times and have yet to be able to recreate the fall of Belgium in the same way. Two air (fighter + Tac + mech + inf) take out the first Belgian unit normally. But even this can require a third (impossible) hit if unlucky. But the capital (2 air + tank + inf) seems to have been awfully lucky on your part. Have I done something different? Just curious how you managed it or if it was lucky as well. No doubt a second turn would have seen them go down.
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Post by supermax »

Blathergut wrote:super...I have run through your first two turns multiple times and have yet to be able to recreate the fall of Belgium in the same way. Two air (fighter + Tac + mech + inf) take out the first Belgian unit normally. But even this can require a third (impossible) hit if unlucky. But the capital (2 air + tank + inf) seems to have been awfully lucky on your part. Have I done something different? Just curious how you managed it or if it was lucky as well. No doubt a second turn would have seen them go down.
It doesnt always work when i do it. But i think youve got ve to use your 2 TACS on the capital. Normaly youve got to attack the capital with a tank and an INF + 2 TACS. There were games i played were i missed the capital and the french advanced to form a solid defensive line with the belgians... You get stuck there for a good part of 1940, but it does in the end also draws the french army where you want it to, that is in forward positions. I have a game running with Joerock at the moment where that exact thing happened.

Also other games i attack the Netherlands as well to give me one more hex to attack the belgian capital. The drawback is that the dutch becore a severe torn in your side.
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Post by Blathergut »

interesting...thanks for the details :)
Crazygunner1
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Post by Crazygunner1 »

Hi Max

Always nice to read your AAr, inovative, consistent and fun :D

I see you have quite a strong prescence in Spain, have you cancelled operation Sealion or do you plan to do some miraculous offensvie there as well.....

Best of luck to you in this game, i am gonna stay on your side since most others go for your opponent.

Crazyg
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Post by supermax »

Crazygunner1 wrote:Hi Max

Always nice to read your AAr, inovative, consistent and fun :D

I see you have quite a strong prescence in Spain, have you cancelled operation Sealion or do you plan to do some miraculous offensvie there as well.....

Best of luck to you in this game, i am gonna stay on your side since most others go for your opponent.

Crazyg
Hey crazygunner!

Always nice to get some positive comments! Well, actually right now i am in between 2 possibilities... Meaning by that is that Massina moved his fleet away from England, thus enabling me to do an easier Sealion. The whole point about making France fall early was to be able to do Spain and England in 1940. I think ive still got that option. Its really goign to depend on how Massina depletes his british isles defenses to help with the MED. This will be easy to spot for me. If troops start to go south in Spain of MEd, then this will be my opportunity for Sealion. Massina has lost 0 british forces since the start of the game, so i need to wait for him to do a false step before i attempt. My hopes soared when i saw 2 transports near spain with the whole fleet, but they were garrisons, so nothing giving me good reason to launch myself over the channel. I still hope he will deplete his british defenses :).

But, as it may, realities of war may impede me from doing this Sealion thing. I have other "grandiose" plans in the works. One definite thing however: My main goal is to have a monster Barbarossa, so all operation in England, MED and otherwise, need not to impede that. I still have a full year before i get to tackle the Russians, but i have already started producing ground troops for that offensive. I have or will have 5 TACS total on the map and 4 FTR + the italian air. 3 of those TACS will be for the Russian offensive and the rest will be for my other plans. I am sorry but i will not outline them here in the AAR. You will also notice that until those grandiose plans are fully revealed, i wont post too many screen captures, or limited ones.

With my playing style, its always harder to fight defensive opponents, which Massina seems to be, the english didnt even lift a finger to help their french brothers. He also seems keen to reinforce the MEd as well, with those GAR... So if he is defense, i have no choice but to be more than really agressive in Barbarossa to catch his forces before they retreat to the hinterland. Opportunities arises on the offense and when your opponent counter-attacks or side steps the wrong way. This is when i am at my best, and i always look for that false step in all my games.

But that, my friend, is only for may 1941. There are a lot of interesting things i wanna do before that date.
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Post by Crazygunner1 »

supermax wrote:
Crazygunner1 wrote:Hi Max

Always nice to read your AAr, inovative, consistent and fun :D

I see you have quite a strong prescence in Spain, have you cancelled operation Sealion or do you plan to do some miraculous offensvie there as well.....

Best of luck to you in this game, i am gonna stay on your side since most others go for your opponent.

Crazyg
Hey crazygunner!

Always nice to get some positive comments! Well, actually right now i am in between 2 possibilities... Meaning by that is that Massina moved his fleet away from England, thus enabling me to do an easier Sealion. The whole point about making France fall early was to be able to do Spain and England in 1940. I think ive still got that option. Its really goign to depend on how Massina depletes his british isles defenses to help with the MED. This will be easy to spot for me. If troops start to go south in Spain of MEd, then this will be my opportunity for Sealion. Massina has lost 0 british forces since the start of the game, so i need to wait for him to do a false step before i attempt. My hopes soared when i saw 2 transports near spain with the whole fleet, but they were garrisons, so nothing giving me good reason to launch myself over the channel. I still hope he will deplete his british defenses :).

But, as it may, realities of war may impede me from doing this Sealion thing. I have other "grandiose" plans in the works. One definite thing however: My main goal is to have a monster Barbarossa, so all operation in England, MED and otherwise, need not to impede that. I still have a full year before i get to tackle the Russians, but i have already started producing ground troops for that offensive. I have or will have 5 TACS total on the map and 4 FTR + the italian air. 3 of those TACS will be for the Russian offensive and the rest will be for my other plans. I am sorry but i will not outline them here in the AAR. You will also notice that until those grandiose plans are fully revealed, i wont post too many screen captures, or limited ones.

With my playing style, its always harder to fight defensive opponents, which Massina seems to be, the english didnt even lift a finger to help their french brothers. He also seems keen to reinforce the MEd as well, with those GAR... So if he is defense, i have no choice but to be more than really agressive in Barbarossa to catch his forces before they retreat to the hinterland. Opportunities arises on the offense and when your opponent counter-attacks or side steps the wrong way. This is when i am at my best, and i always look for that false step in all my games.


Gonna be fun to see how you manage a monster Barbarossa when you got all other plans in the mix. But as you know the key to Barbarossa is getting the russians to commit and push hard in the beginning. Russians don´t have the economy or science to threaten the German forces that early. Think you are right about Sealion, reality might catch up with you sooner than you would like. If he doesn´t deplete England with more valuable troops, gonna be hard to acomplish anything over there.

It´s funny you mentioned that with defensive players. Massina and i are doing an AAr as well, he just invaded Russia and already i have itchy fingers to counterattack. I always see so many angles when i defend on the russian front. Some are good others are bad....he he. I mean the more defensive a player is against me the more i want to attack and take the initiative.
But that, my friend, is only for may 1941. There are a lot of interesting things i wanna do before that date.
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Post by Crazygunner1 »

This forum is a bit tricky...some reason my whole post got to be a qoute....ha ha
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