I'm done

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:13 pm

Edit - that was not the full video - here is a better version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY7aRJE-oOY

Anyone having issues with the game please watch this!

Amaz_Ed · Post by **Amaz_Ed** » Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:26 pm

iainmcneil wrote:I think thw issue is feedback - not sure how to fix it but we need to help you guys better understand what is going on under the hood.

I think that a comprehensive tutorial that explained thesae factors would be a fantastic addition to the game. It's very easy to wanser along clicking orders and being annoyed over and over by something that seems really silly. Some people might have a sudden revelation and 'get it', while others will just lose interest and disappear.

I have been thinking of BBCBA similarly to the way I used to treat DBM (Iain knows

), many people, in my experience, struggled with the abstract nature of the game. For example, the scale of the models in BBCBA leads people to think that they are actually only feet away from a target when they are possibly 200 metres away. Watching a Tiger consistently miss someting that seems to be only a hundred metres away can be extremely frustrating, but see the range as maybe 1000 metres and your whole appreciation for the game changes.

I think that if you take the scale issue and look at each of the points made earlier in this thread many of them are a little easier to understand.

Stubee · Post by **Stubee** » Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:06 pm

Yeah...I feel like I'm missing a manual sometimes, considering the online manual is absent of any details on units, strategy, etc. Seems like the folks that do well are those in the know from their experience with other games....

Gets back to a suggestion I made in another post somewhere.....a wiki for the game that users can update. Not much work required for slitherine, yet a benefit for us confused souls.

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:46 pm

We need to do it... just need to clone ourselves and find the time first!

tim1966 · Post by **tim1966** » Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:30 pm

I think Amaz_Ed has hit the nail on the head. I see this game as a tabletop war game on computer without the tedium of endless tables. Scales and ratios are abstracted somewhat as their are in wargames. I find I need to use tactics - slow and steady. If I race in I'm dead and I try to cover units with others etc. Occasionally it goes wrong but I don't want a game I can win easily - if I wanted that I'd go back to playing Total War

- I don't see the hot and cold cold streaks but sometimes I think I have the odd bad luck and sometimes the odd good luck. Since Tigers and Panthers got fixed they are scary.

Its not a simulation its a wargame that works pretty well I think.

Post by **pipfromslitherine** » Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:33 pm

I think that is a good summation of where we wanted to be. However we do have modelling in the game which isn't being made clear enough in the feedback to the player - so we are both adding feedback, and rationalising some of the more edge-case simulation so that it is clearer what is going on. I'm hoping that this will leave the core winning strategies which I think we all agree on (combined forces, good positioning, etc) but with the player being more confident in how units will behave in a given situation (even if they aren't sure of the outcome of the shot!).

Cheers

Pip

LOGAN5 · Post by **LOGAN5** » Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:18 pm

iainmcneil wrote:Edit - that was not the full video - here is a better version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY7aRJE-oOY

Anyone having issues with the game please watch this!

The "math 101" section pretty much sums up what has been going on here, actually a pretty funny video.. nice find thanks

Ryben · Post by **Ryben** » Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:45 pm

Relating to OP fire...

I think turretless vehicles should have a reduced OP fire chance if the target is not in front arc. Everytime i try to sneak on a StuG the little bastard turn in place and shoots first.

VERY unrealistic, assault guns are good for ambushes but in the game they are treated as any other tank. They were no good at all in tank vs tank battles as they can´t turn in place fast enough to react to enemy actions.

I would like to see this "fixed" in future patches. Any chance?

Post by **pipfromslitherine** » Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:03 pm

I think it's unlikely that we'll bring turret rates etc into the game. I would be very suprised if fixed turret vehicles didn't have a very reduced chance to react to anything not in their front arc (all the reaction chances are per-unit).

Something to bear in mind is that if you are very close to a unit it gets a higher chance to react to you, even if you are sneaking.

Cheers

Pip

CaptainSlow · Post by **CaptainSlow** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:24 pm

Personally I think this game shares some qualities the Combat Mission series had; very refined variables but hidden under the bonnet. This may confuse players since they may be thrown of the hook by the devious simple looks of the game. Personally, I love this to bits. Cunning mechanics and simple representation works in my book. Improving 'feedback' does have a risk of taking away the mystery of this game. You need many rounds of play to come to grasp with the refined mechanics under the hood. I apply tactics I read in many war diaries and they work! If I lose it is usually because of bad tactical judgement, rushing out instead of careful reconnaissance etc.
Personally, i think the risk of breaking this game is greater than of refining it. Of course, I would love smoke, gliders, para's dropping, you name it. But I like the game as it is.

my only minor gripe with single player is the update cycle in which I see all the enemy units flash by while there is FOW active. Bit of a spoiler.

CS

Melnibone · Post by **Melnibone** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:32 am

Stubee wrote:Yeah...I feel like I'm missing a manual sometimes, considering the online manual is absent of any details on units, strategy, etc. Seems like the folks that do well are those in the know from their experience with other games....

An example of this - I've come across several opponents who do not realise the Wespe has an indirect fire function.

PirateJock_Wargamer · Post by **PirateJock_Wargamer** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:44 am

Ssshhh! - don't tell everyone

.... I need every advantage I can get.

junk2drive · Post by **junk2drive** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:57 am

Melnibone wrote:
Stubee wrote:Yeah...I feel like I'm missing a manual sometimes, considering the online manual is absent of any details on units, strategy, etc. Seems like the folks that do well are those in the know from their experience with other games....
An example of this - I've come across several opponents who do not realise the Wespe has an indirect fire function.

It took me a while to figure that out with the Bishop in the desert campaign.