Defending the Reich - the war is over

[Plaid]

He will not be able to stop you if you continue, he doesn't have any real combat units in Britain having sent them to France (and not enough PP's either).

But you do need to trade amount spent vs Barbarossa build up.

cheers from a Sealion advocate

Duncan

It was pure luck, that allowed me to land at single hex. And now I have reasonable foothold, because Britts can't fill this 2nd rough hex (now occupied with SAC) with anysing, but air unit (garrison can't move there because of my corps ZoC). So they can either repair this SAC (bye bye PPs and still can be destroyed), replace it with fighter (even more likely to be destroyed with its 5 steps) or retreat from there and let me land my mech for free (my opponent can't see, what actually is inside transports, they have numeric names).

In fact I like idea, that transports can attack enemy occupied hexes, coming soon, because this blocking with garrisons (both allied and axis in italy/ France later) make no realistic sence. To stop a landing you need worthy forces, not numerous but poorly equiped militia.

I think that canadian mech can still be somewhere in England. Also all this british movements during last turn looks like severe overuse of 6 british rail cap, so Zechi's PP situation is a question now.
After (hopefully) fall of London I will not need this great air suppor anymore and bunch of corps (maybe even axis minors) will metodically clean up all this garrisons. That would not be such a great strike for my eastern campaign, which should be launched in june-july 1941 and be moderate powered.

After (again hopefully) fall of Britain, it is planned to be used same way, as Ronnie uses Norway - murmansk convoy death zone.

Sealion is bad for early axis economy indeed, but it pays off with bold "NO" to any strategic bombings of Germany later and another "NO" to any allied airsupport, if they want to land in Europe.
Also I think that Sealion almost don't affect british economy, because convoy routes becomes shorter (and safer, off USA shore) and they receive almost all same PPs. But it provides axis with valueable PP income and rail cap.

[richardsd]

Taking Britain gives you two big advantages:

1. PP differential, you get the addition of PP's and the ability to stop all Russian convoys

2. Strategic platform, or rather the removal of the British one, mean's no early bombing and no early DDay options

you can hit the Brit convoys until the US is in the war if you really want to as well

the negative is that you have to be very careful with Barbarossa, you have to take what you can and get set before winter - if you get caught out you will be on the defensive from the first Russian winter

of course he could sacrifice Labs to try and save Britain and generate lots of GAR but you should still be fine now that you have a foothold, either way he is hurting big time

[Plaid]

Expected counterattack damaged my landing force heavily, also I pay huge fee for transports at sea and RN scopes free hits on them, but now its no way back.



I managed to destroy this fighter quite easily (3 steps taken by my FTR, 1 by BB, and when I attacked with corps, it scored 3 i.e. overkill)
By the way, with new invasion system something has to be done with airforce, because late planes have high surv (in our old game vs Neil he delayed red army advace in 1945 for couple of turns just by placing his useless bombers on my way, and it taken several armour attacks to kill each bomber), while landing units have pretty low attack value, so it means, that late planes would still be ultimate coastal defenders

Anyway, beachhead expands now, while british infantry finally left France for good.



Also all 4 my subs managed to sink CV, meaning that Britain left with no airpower in the region.

In MED troops continue to deploy for Lybia, while entire Italian fleet attacks british BB and damaged it heavily.

[Plaid]

Things becoming really tough.



In England Zechi continues to counterattack me, this time he killed MECHs.
At my turn I expanded beachhead further, killing GAR and this 3 step corps and deploying one more german inf and italian alpini corps.

Also I sent bomber to "check" Cardiff harbor and 1 step BB was right same place, it ended last turn. Now its not, though
My planes finished off 1 step sub and together with subs and HSF destroyed 10 step DD. RN and RAF are crippled for now indeed, but we already have to see, what about axis powers - I spent pretty lots of resources on this operation and casualties are not light.

In MED sea fight aswell - somehow Zechi killed my italian BB with fighter + CV + sub, but in return I finished off his own MED BB.
RN now consists of 2 BB and 1 damaged DD in atlantic and CV + sub in MED. Not great at all.

This turn italians got their 1st general (industry) lab.

[gerones]

You have a foothold in England: german losses have been significant but the british have taken much more higher losses and they have not achieved to drop the germans to the sea.

On the other hand, RAF and Royal Navy strategy have not been the best in this game...

drichards is right about the high price of sea lion and its influence in a weak Barbarossa.

[Plaid]

You have a foothold in England: german losses have been significant but the british have taken much more higher losses and they have not achieved to drop the germans to the sea.

On the other hand, RAF and Royal Navy strategy have not been the best in this game...

drichards is right about the high price of sea lion and its influence in a weak Barbarossa.

Well, I was not going for this, sealion was not supposed to be so costly (and next time I will think two times before launching it), but once its launched I can't simple stop and have to go to the end.
Costly victory, or costly defeat, feel the difference.

[ferokapo]

Well, I was not going for this, sealion was not supposed to be so costly (and next time I will think two times before launching it), but once its launched I can't simple stop and have to go to the end.
Costly victory, or costly defeat, feel the difference.

I am following this with great interest, because I would like to try a Sealion in the future (now if any of my current or future pbem opponents sees this: not against you, of course )

I think there were two issues that had a negative influence on your Sealion:

1. The place of landing. You need to capture a port quickly, and where you landed, this is not possible. Of course this decision was not entirely yours, I recognize that, but also determined by your opponent's deployment of forces.

2. Interference from the RN. Altough you have damaged the RN a lot, they have done the same to your invasion forces. It seems it is really necessary to completely close off the channel with subs, and destroy any RN presence in the closed-off part. Maybe your chances would have been better if you had shifted your effort a bit more to the west, and target Southampton.

Nevertheless, I am impressed, and good luck!

[richardsd]

So the Brits are incredibly weakened, death of the RAF, pumelling of the RN - so maybe just a fair trade so far

I believe you have to commit to take the UK now, otherwise the cost is to high when it comes to Barbarossa

there are some ideas you could maybe consider next time

1. you have to seal the landings form the west - permanently to stop easy (short move) RN attack (subs or GAR transports are good for this)
2. you have to pressure Norwich as well - this is most likely where you will succeed as they focus on the south
3. you need to spend on your transports early (all at once) to maximise landings spots (the transport costs are the least of your worries)
4. I have always succeed by fienting to the South and taking Norwich - 4 TAC's and multiple landing options always seems to make the Norwich Stratgey a success for me and I have never had such a weak RAF to deal with

I believe you have to keep going now

[richardsd]

Also your arrow indicate that you paid another invasion penalty?

Hopefully you attacked and advanced/landed so that you didn't pay this?

[Plaid]

Also your arrow indicate that you paid another invasion penalty?

Hopefully you attacked and advanced/landed so that you didn't pay this?

No penalty, it were Italians.

[richardsd]

Excellent!

I did wonder why you didn't land a stronger German unit, were both of the others you didn't land GAR's?

[Plaid]

Excellent!

I did wonder why you didn't land a stronger German unit, were both of the others you didn't land GAR's?

Well, maybe picture don't explain what happened properly, and I was lazy to take 2nd one.
1. German 3 step corps together with 9 step mech corps and massive air support destroyed 10 step garrison., and mech corps advanced here.
2. New german corps landed as hex, where mech was at start of the turn and killed 3 step british corps.
3. Italians landed at hex (they had 1 cap, while germans had 0), which were empty after destruction of british corps.

[richardsd]

ah, didn't note that the 3 step attacked

keep up the good work, this will be draining his PP's and really hurting his Lab builds

[gerones]

Another objection for launching a sea lion is that unless you finish France in late april or early may 1940, you don´t have enough time for performing the operation until the autumn weather comes.

And, on this concrete case, if you get an early autumn weather on october your landed forces will be in trouble.

[schwerpunkt]

So the Brits are incredibly weakened, death of the RAF, pumelling of the RN - so maybe just a fair trade so far

I believe you have to commit to take the UK now, otherwise the cost is to high when it comes to Barbarossa

there are some ideas you could maybe consider next time

1. you have to seal the landings form the west - permanently to stop easy (short move) RN attack (subs or GAR transports are good for this)
2. you have to pressure Norwich as well - this is most likely where you will succeed as they focus on the south
3. you need to spend on your transports early (all at once) to maximise landings spots (the transport costs are the least of your worries)
4. I have always succeed by fienting to the South and taking Norwich - 4 TAC's and multiple landing options always seems to make the Norwich Stratgey a success for me and I have never had such a weak RAF to deal with

I believe you have to keep going now

I agree - the die is cast. You are too committed to engaging and killing the british now. Best finish them off because your Barbarossa will be weak either way, but, not having airbase UK to deal with is a great advantage to holding the allies at arms length and killing the russian supply convoys.

PS: If you can, move a corps-transport to the hex northwest of Norwich - this will force Zechi to contemplate another landing site and give you a shot at Norwich, which is a supply source within range of your TACs.

[Crazygunner1]

You still need to secure a port before rough sea starts or winter comes right? If you don´t the sealion must surely die....

[Crazygunner1]

If you can continue and get a hold/port and take London, i would attack in afrika as soon as possible. Make haste for persian oil. You have atleast a year before US enters the war and can send troops. With British economy severely damaged they won´t have resources to defend afrika and you should destroy them easily.

Weaker Barbarossa? Yes, but you will have enough forces to keep pushing into russia in 1941 and reach an ok point for defense during first winter. I don´t think he will engage any battles in 41 with the russians so you should have and easy walk to secure the targets you need no matter how weak your offensive is.

If all goes as planned, by 42 you will have secured afrika, the oilfields in Persia. That means during winter of 41-42 you can produce alot of tanks, mechs and bombers to boost your decisive summer offensive on the russian plains. Deal a crippling blow that they won´t recover from. In 42 the russians won´t be getting any convoys through since you control britain and can attack freely with subs, if you capture persia in addition the land lease 15 PPs will disappear also....

It all adds up to a staggering blow to russian economy.....

Thinks it´s doable?

Crazyg

[richardsd]

if you work out the PP's, I don't think you have enough to do this - I have tried, but then UK defense was not the best so maybe?

when I have tried the allies wake up early to the fact you can't hurt them in Russia and you end up fighting Russians in Africa/Persia.

but thats just my experience

[Plaid]

You still need to secure a port before rough sea starts or winter comes right? If you don´t the sealion must surely die....

I dont think that my foothold can be driven to the sea by garrisons with bad weather penatly.
I will just defend it until spring, and continue then.

About africa - well, from my experience skilled allied player will defend in narrow pass, where axis can attack only from 2 hexes, one of wich is "cross-river". Axis are very unlikey to kill entire allied unit, and they have enough infantry to rotate and repair.
Also I didn't got any supply center (Malta, Gibraltar), so I can't maintain reasonable african corps. This +10 because of little allied sea garrison can vanish at once, when Zechi rebase there some naval units (like his useless beaten destroyer). And paying 30+ PPs per turn for african campaign is not OK.

[Plaid]

Zechi launched surprising effective counterattack from London, reducing my MECHs to 4 steps.
Attack by garrisons on Alpini Corpo was not this great though, and now garrison's own casualties would be exploited.



I deffinetely gonna like my opponet's garrisons - garrison seems to be only type of ground unit, which bomber (and sometimes fighter) actually kills - you can knock 2-3-4 steps out of GAR on clear terrain with single TAC attack, and even more effectivness. So this 7 step GAR was reduced to 3 by bombers and finished off by alpini, while another one was also damaged by bombers and HSF, befero finished off with fresh landed corps.

As you can see, both BBs are sealed in their ports (and hopefully will stay there until cities fall).
I prepared another challenge to Zechi's rail cap and garrison force - transports are everywhere. Some are garrisons, but he can't see which.
Panzer Korps prepaired to be landed to the beachhead, to take part in exiting garrison killing. (moved after screen taken, so still near antwerp on picture).



I purchased 2 more german mech corps, basically for further spring landings in England. Also repaired some most damaged bombers and subs, aswell as units on the beachhead.

Lost DD squad in the MED to allied airpower and sub (well, both german and italian DDs are more or less useless units), while last BB is now safe in Italy with no damage.

Respecting Barbarossa, I am going to go with massive infantry force there. I have enough experience of fail barbarossa's launched in august (well, various things caused it - unexpected strong defence of Gibraltar or Norway, hard fighting in africa, Sealion and so on) and have to say, that its not so critical to kill this border forces, because 95% of them are useless garrisons (and its hard to get to mechs, if you have weak forces). So maybe in 1941 I will just go for baltic states (no SW here) and some minor advance to shape good frontline, ofcourse if my opponent will defend and not retreat to Urals for good

And in 1942 I will see, what can be done, and maybe start offencive.