Historicon "Steppes" theme: crowd sourcing questio

babyshark · Post by **babyshark** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:15 pm

ethan wrote:I would define the "steppe" as just that - the large area of Central and Eastern Asian. I think the temptation to include anyone who is a "LH army" as steppe is not a good one. So armies originating in the modern states of Ukraine, much of Russia, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Mongolia and non-Chinese in Northern China would be the mainstays. Some of the other parts of the Caucus and Caspian probably are in there as well.

I wouldn't include Timur as he is largely an Afghan/Pakistan warlord that is a descendant of the steppes but does not himself have a clear steppe origin.

How about Timur's descendant who invaded India? Any opinion on him?

Marc

ethan · Post by **ethan** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:17 pm

babyshark wrote:
ethan wrote:I would define the "steppe" as just that - the large area of Central and Eastern Asian. I think the temptation to include anyone who is a "LH army" as steppe is not a good one. So armies originating in the modern states of Ukraine, much of Russia, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Mongolia and non-Chinese in Northern China would be the mainstays. Some of the other parts of the Caucus and Caspian probably are in there as well.

I wouldn't include Timur as he is largely an Afghan/Pakistan warlord that is a descendant of the steppes but does not himself have a clear steppe origin.
How about Timur's descendant who invaded India? Any opinion on him?

Marc

Nope. No steppes anywhere in there. All the India, Pakistan, Afghanistan stuff is not steppe IMO.

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:40 am

babyshark wrote:Parthians will get in, but on the "civilized" rather than the "steppe" side. For purposes of this Theme, steppe army is defined as: 1) having a nomadic life on the steppes, and 2) invading non-steppe peoples.

Then Pathians get in how? WHich steppe terror did they fight?

ethan · Post by **ethan** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:48 am

hazelbark wrote:
babyshark wrote:Parthians will get in, but on the "civilized" rather than the "steppe" side. For purposes of this Theme, steppe army is defined as: 1) having a nomadic life on the steppes, and 2) invading non-steppe peoples.

Then Pathians get in how? WHich steppe terror did they fight?

Skythians invade them I believe. The Skythians/Indo-Skythians attack the AFghan/Iran area I think.

pcelella · Post by **pcelella** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:19 pm

I would think that the Japanese who experienced the Mongol Invasion should be included, along with the Han Chinese, and probably several others of the Chinese and Korean armies. These would of course represent the settled peoples.

In addition, besides most of the Byzantines, I think the Foederate Romans have to make it in on the settled side - they were one of the primary enemies of the Huns after all. Then another question is, how about some of the German people in the Migration Period, like the Visigoths, Ostrogoths, etc. - these folks were either chased into the Roman Empire by the Huns or were subjugated by them.

Peter C
Sword and Sandal Gaming Blog
http://swordandsandalgaming.blogspot.com/

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:49 pm

Personally I think this is way too broad. I understand the reasoning, but as I said, we are then really only exlcuding very little.

pcelella · Post by **pcelella** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:21 pm

You probably have a point about letting in too many of the armies being discussed will result in too broad a theme. For a narrower approach, it might be interesting to see how the Warrior guys are defining their theme. Below is a listing of the ONLY armies they are allowing into their event:

Skythian
Early Rhoxolani Sarmatian
Siracae/Iazyges Sarmatian
Khazar
Islamic Persian
Khwarizmian
Post-Mongol Russian
Xiongnu
Kushan
Early Turk
Xianbei
Tibetan/Tangut
Uighur Turk
Jurchen, Jin Dynasty Chinese
Khitan Liao
Qarakhitan
Mongol
Golden Horde
Ilkhanid
Timurid

Peter C
Sword and Sandal Gaming Blog
http://swordandsandalgaming.blogspot.com/

Scrumpy · Post by **Scrumpy** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:51 pm

What day would the tourny be on ?

And would Early Byzantines be included in the list of civilized nations ?

babyshark · Post by **babyshark** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:23 pm

Scrumpy wrote:What day would the tourny be on ?

And would Early Byzantines be included in the list of civilized nations ?

This event will be on the Friday (July 9, I believe). There will be an Open on Saturday, and something--perhaps a mini?--on Thursday.

Early Byzantines may be included. But the more I think about it, the more I am inclined to keep the army lists rather narrow. Certainly some Byzantines will be in, likely more than one.

Marc

Scrumpy · Post by **Scrumpy** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:38 pm

babyshark wrote:
Scrumpy wrote:What day would the tourny be on ?

And would Early Byzantines be included in the list of civilized nations ?
This event will be on the Friday (July 9, I believe). There will be an Open on Saturday, and something--perhaps a mini?--on Thursday.

Early Byzantines may be included. But the more I think about it, the more I am inclined to keep the army lists rather narrow. Certainly some Byzantines will be in, likely more than one.

Marc

Friday is great, otherwise it would clash with the World Cup Final. Not a problem for you Yanks, but we English harbour the same fanciful dream that this year IS the year.

Will there be a 25mm tourney ? I have Early Byzantines in 25mm and would love to try them out at Valley Forge.

babyshark · Post by **babyshark** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:28 pm

Scrumpy wrote:Friday is great, otherwise it would clash with the World Cup Final. Not a problem for you Yanks, but we English harbour the same fanciful dream that this year IS the year.

Will there be a 25mm tourney ? I have Early Byzantines in 25mm and would love to try them out at Valley Forge.

I am sure England will be in no great danger of winning the World Cup. With an opening game defeat at the hands of the Yanks to set the tone, it might even be an early exit for the Three Lions crew.

As for 25mm, the answer is that I don't know. It always seems to be a bit hit or miss. We had 25mm at Historicon last year with no problems. But Fall In! and more recently Cold Wars did not bring the 25mm players out of their hiding places. My advice is to bring an army in both scales. That way you are covered in either case.

Marc

Scrumpy · Post by **Scrumpy** » Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:33 pm

Actually it is nice to see we Brits are allowed in Valley Forge, albeit 230 odd years too late to crush the revolting colonists.

ethan · Post by **ethan** » Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:17 pm

Scrumpy wrote:Actually it is nice to see we Brits are allowed in Valley Forge, albeit 230 odd years too late to crush the revolting colonists.

I believe those were your Hunnic mercenaries.

America: We will kill you in the middle of the night on Christmas. Battle of Trenton