Amerika in Flames---The War is over and Peace treaty signed!

[Peter Stauffenberg]

You mean you want to go after Ottawa and Washington/New York? That would be very interesting indeed to see. Then I guess you need to maximize naval and general labs with focus on Surface ships and Industy to up your transport capacity along with the sea invasion capacity.

[supermax]

Well, i dont know if i want to go full tilt against North America, but i would certainly consider to give it a go, just to make sure that the allies woudlnt get to Europe before 44 or 45.

So yes, i will invest some pp into naval research and build a CV and embark stuff as soon as possible for North America (time and speed would be of the essence)

I think that if i can keep up destroying Panzergeneral'S forces i can have a reasonnable chance of being able to take Halifax with 2 BB, 3-4 INF, 1 CV and 1 TAC... I wouldnt invest more than that for starters, then would reienforce the task force if i can be successeful...

But other than that it wouldnt be the major effort, for 41-43 it would need to be russia or i would surely loose the game.

[supermax]

[joerock22]

Well, i dont know if i want to go full tilt against North America, but i would certainly consider to give it a go, just to make sure that the allies woudlnt get to Europe before 44 or 45.

So yes, i will invest some pp into naval research and build a CV and embark stuff as soon as possible for North America (time and speed would be of the essence)

I think that if i can keep up destroying Panzergeneral'S forces i can have a reasonnable chance of being able to take Halifax with 2 BB, 3-4 INF, 1 CV and 1 TAC... I wouldnt invest more than that for starters, then would reienforce the task force if i can be successeful...

But other than that it wouldnt be the major effort, for 41-43 it would need to be russia or i would surely loose the game.

That would be intersting! I tried Canada once in a vanilla game. I didn't succeed, but I still won the game because I forced Russia to surrender. I can't remember if the Western Allies ever got back to Britain. I don't think PanzerGeneral realizes the amount of fire he is currently playing with.

[supermax]

Hehehe maybee not...

But if he keeps expanding his forces at this rate, he will pay for it.

I need to find those 100pp to produce this CV in the next 2 turns. Already have 1 BB in the production queue , 1 TAC and 1 sub...

And i do have to succeed in taking England first!

But as a whole i wont invest too much i really find it useful to throw a monster punch at the Russians, so if i spend too much on this venture, i might get in trouble in the east... And if i find Canada to be too tough a nut to crack, i'll just position my ships for a major ambush at the american fleet before it gets a change to assemble itself.

We'll just have to see this thru, but i wont take Ottawa thats for sure. Just Halifax would be fine to delay the western allies for the rest of the game probably.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

If you take Halifax and Britain is captured then the British convoys won't spawn. That's a MAJOR setback for the Allies. I don't think you will hold Halifax for long after USA joins the Allies. So taking it should be done in the Spring of 1941. If Panzergeneral panicks then you can run for Ottawa as well before the Americans throw you out of the continent.

[supermax]

Well the plan is simple. As soon as England is in the bag, the troops will be on transports for Canada... Maybee even sooner if i can permit myself to do so (i will judge that depending on the overall situation).

On the bad side of things, i will have to build a mainly infantry/motorized army, because i wont have too much oil if i spend too much of it on western ventures...

So lots of infantry research and lots of hope against the russians...

[supermax]

Hey joe rock and Stauf

Do you think that if, just if, i REALLY commit infantry, tanks, planes and the likes in very largenumbers (the numbers needed to really invade the damn place) that i could take over North america? This would mean a very weak barbarossa, but an assured TOTAL victory.

What would be , in your own opinions, what i should commit?

I see the commitment as follow:

6 infantry corps
2 tanks corps
2 TAC
2 Fighters
1 STRAT

1 CV
2 BB
4-5 Subs
1 DD

My plan would also be to declare war on the US BEFORE it would activate by itself and thus taking them by total surprise...

This is really taking form in my head. HOW much PP per turn this invasion forc would cost me and for how many turns? i see 44pp per turn. OVERLY exensive but the rewards would be exponentially incredible...

[Clark]

Hey joe rock and Stauf

Do you think that if, just if, i REALLY commit infantry, tanks, planes and the likes in very largenumbers (the numbers needed to really invade the damn place) that i could take over North america? This would mean a very weak barbarossa, but an assured TOTAL victory.

What would be , in your own opinions, what i should commit?

I see the commitment as follow:

6 infantry corps
2 tanks corps
2 TAC
2 Fighters
1 STRAT

1 CV
2 BB
4-5 Subs
1 DD

My plan would also be to declare war on the US BEFORE it would activate by itself and thus taking them by total surprise...

This is really taking form in my head. HOW much PP per turn this invasion forc would cost me and for how many turns? i see 44pp per turn. OVERLY exensive but the rewards would be exponentially incredible...

Question - In CEAW-GS, does the USSR enter the war no matter what happens? In other words, if the Axis defeats France and the UK before the USSR and US enter the war, does the war continue?

[supermax]

Very good question!!!

[joerock22]

Question - In CEAW-GS, does the USSR enter the war no matter what happens? In other words, if the Axis defeats France and the UK before the USSR and US enter the war, does the war continue?

I think I saw in a post somewhere, maybe on the Matrix forums, that if you force USA and Canada to surrender before Russia is active, the game is over. Of course, that was on vanilla, but I assume it would be the same on GS.

As to your other question, your disposition of forces looks pretty good. I would bring another TAC instead of that STRAT. I don't think it's worth bringing that STRAT over just so it can bomb resources. The following screenshot is what I see when I look at the US.



The way I see it, you have two options for an invasion of North America. Kind of like the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor; the attack plan changes depending on whether or not you have surprise.

Surpise
If you have it, your plan to DOW the USA and take them out could work. You could probably take Boston on turn 1 with CV support, and weaken Portland. Or maye just land everything you can next to New York and Washington. The key would be making those hundreds of pps worth of reinforcements PanzerGeneral can crank out worthless. But I think it can be done with the force you have outlined.

No surprise
The trouble is that if PanzerGeneral sniffs out your invasion, he can crank out a dozen infantry units and place them in every possible hex next to all his cities. If this happens, I’d recommend focusing on destroying the British, taking Halifax and Ottawa.

Man, this is interesting! You’re making me want to try this myself! Maybe I'll try a hotseat game pretending I have surprise. If I do I’ll let you know how it turns out.

[supermax]

Thanks for the tips joerock


Yes, it is interesting for sure...

Mmm there is no easy way to do this and besides, the Russian offensive would be greatly dimninished, not counting the oil i would burn in the process...

Another option i might consider besides the one you said:

1- I like your Boston invasion scheme,
2- But the rest of the invasion force would have to come up from the north with Halifax as a base... If i can overtake the place in 1940 as i think i can.

But as you say, Panzergeneral might sniff the invasion simply because too many people look into the forum, and ABSOLUTE secrecy would be needed in this type of campaign...

Mmm... I need to finish this french campaign first and then complete it with England downfall... In the meantime ill stick with the drawing boards...

[Clark]

Question - In CEAW-GS, does the USSR enter the war no matter what happens? In other words, if the Axis defeats France and the UK before the USSR and US enter the war, does the war continue?

I think I saw in a post somewhere, maybe on the Matrix forums, that if you force USA and Canada to surrender before Russia is active, the game is over. Of course, that was on vanilla, but I assume it would be the same on GS.

As to your other question, your disposition of forces looks pretty good. I would bring another TAC instead of that STRAT. I don't think it's worth bringing that STRAT over just so it can bomb resources. The following screenshot is what I see when I look at the US.



The way I see it, you have two options for an invasion of North America. Kind of like the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor; the attack plan changes depending on whether or not you have surprise.

Surpise
If you have it, your plan to DOW the USA and take them out could work. You could probably take Boston on turn 1 with CV support, and weaken Portland. Or maye just land everything you can next to New York and Washington. The key would be making those hundreds of pps worth of reinforcements PanzerGeneral can crank out worthless. But I think it can be done with the force you have outlined.

No surprise
The trouble is that if PanzerGeneral sniffs out your invasion, he can crank out a dozen infantry units and place them in every possible hex next to all his cities. If this happens, I’d recommend focusing on destroying the British, taking Halifax and Ottawa.

Man, this is interesting! You’re making me want to try this myself! Maybe I'll try a hotseat game pretending I have surprise. If I do I’ll let you know how it turns out.

In vanilla, all that's required is to take out the UK in Ottawa. You don't have to invade the US to win. I know, because Jyri beat me once this way. I lost the RN trying to stop Sealion and in defending units that had attempted an evacuation to Canada, and I didn't make much of an effort in Britain, thinking I could save my PP and regroup in Canada. Both were huge mistakes.

[joerock22]

In vanilla, all that's required is to take out the UK in Ottawa. You don't have to invade the US to win. I know, because Jyri beat me once this way. I lost the RN trying to stop Sealion and in defending units that had attempted an evacuation to Canada, and I didn't make much of an effort in Britain, thinking I could save my PP and regroup in Canada. Both were huge mistakes.

Oh, that's what I meant; I just said it wrong.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

I think the next target should be dependent upon how Sealion works out. If Panzergeneral wastes his Royal Navy even more and doesn't withdraw from Britain to Canada with his airforce and some land units then it's definitely worth a shot. If he defends well (even when losing Britain) then it's too risky. It then better to storm into Egypt and Iraq for the extra oil. That should give you the momentum to fight well in Russia.

If you're playing an equally skilled opponent then you would get into trouble in Russia, but I think you have the upper hand and could succeed even if big parts of your forces will be in the west and Middle East.

I think it would be fun to try out the invasion of Canada and/or USA just to see how it goes. You have the chance.

[Clark]

In vanilla, all that's required is to take out the UK in Ottawa. You don't have to invade the US to win. I know, because Jyri beat me once this way. I lost the RN trying to stop Sealion and in defending units that had attempted an evacuation to Canada, and I didn't make much of an effort in Britain, thinking I could save my PP and regroup in Canada. Both were huge mistakes.

Oh, that's what I meant; I just said it wrong.

No worries!

A couple of thoughts on the "Case Ottawa" method of winning. It feels kind of like a "run rule", where the Axis is winning by such a wide margin in the spring or fall of 1941 that the Allies are just forced to give up and save everyone time. Historically, Germany almost certainly would have attacked the USSR if they concluded a successful war with the Western Allies, since they did so even with the UK still formidable in 1941. And the decision to cut the game short is certainly defensible, since it's unlikely that the Allies would be able to come back if they managed to lose the British Isles, the Royal Navy in the North Atlantic, and then Ottawa and Halifax. (Then again, stranger things have happened!)

However, two players can always agree that the game is over at any point that one side's advantage appears to be too great, so I don't really agree with these game parameters. My own preference would be for the US to automatically enter the war upon an Axis invasion of North America if this occurred in or before December 1941. Roosevelt would invoke the Monroe Doctrine and his cousin's Roosevelt Corollary, and the US would send its fleet into battle and rail its infantry to the aid of its allies on the continent.

[rkr1958]

Roosevelt would invoke the Monroe Doctrine and his cousin's Roosevelt Corollary, and the US would send its fleet into battle and rail its infantry to the aid of its allies on the continent.

That's a very good point! I think we should consider this for future additions to CEaW-GS. Historically, I don't the US staying of the sidelines if the Germans launched an invasion of North America.

By the way, we should keep the discussion of this potential feature upgrade contained to this thread for now so the possibility of an Axis invasion of Canada doesn't leak to PanzerGeneral.

[trulster]

Agree, in fact a successful (ie taking London) Sealion should also have a quickening effect on US war declaration.

[pk867]

Another point is to shorten the cycle between war effort updates. Right now it is every 4 or 5 turns or once per quarter of the year.
Just for fun in 1939 as the German player declare war on the USA and watch what happens.. nothing.
The war effort increases the same as if the country was at peace. IMO Any Major power that is DoW should increase to 100% very quickly given they were attacked.

[ftgcritt2]

I think an invasion of Canada should cause an automatic entry of the USA into the war.