New to game and seeking advice

paulburton · Post by **paulburton** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:25 pm

That particular was relaxed so that miniatures were exempt. However some manufacturers still went to the Lead free alloys. I think RAFM stayed lead free, at least for some ranges linked to certain games as a licence condition. Alloys available at the time suffered by being rather brittle and the castings tended to lack animation. This was a few years ago though so things may well have improved.

tvknight415 · Post by **tvknight415** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:30 pm

A few new questions about basing...

I picked up a couple small packs of minis I found at a hobby store in Madison, and now have 8 figures of Saracen archers and 4 figures of bedouin cavalry. I bought these primarily to give me some practice at painting and basing while I get ready to make my big army order. I'm planning on doing 2 bases of medium foot archers and 1 base of light foot, and 2 bases of light horse, with what I have. Anyways, on to my questions.....

- I have some strips of 2" balsa wood on hand. Is balsa wood a good material to use to make bases for infantry and/or cavalry? Or, should I run out and get something else to base with (stronger wood, metal, or ?????).

- The bedouin came with the riders separate from the mounts. Should I glue the rider to the mount first, or paint up and attach afterwards? Sorry if this should seem self apparent, but I've only done two mounted minis ever at 25mm scale, and one had the rider molded already to the mount, and the second was separate and I intentionally did not attach it.

- When basing, are there any other conventions I should use to demonstrate the type of unit (other than number of figures per base)? Should I do something special to indicate whether a group is drilled or undrilled, or to differentiate between protected and unprotected? Or, is that the type of thing that just gets declared during a game?

Thanks again for your continued advice (and tolerance, if any of these questions seem stupid)!

list_lurker · Post by **list_lurker** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:36 pm

Hi TVknight

I have some strips of 2" balsa wood on hand. Is balsa wood a good material to use to make bases for infantry and/or cavalry? Or, should I run out and get something else to base with (stronger wood, metal, or ?????).

i would steer away from balsa wood for bases as it will warp dreadfully if you use PVA to flock the base. I used to use artists card, offcuts from a picture framer. But now I've joined the ranks of lazy wargamers and uses pre cut plastic (or on occassion MDF) base.

Should I glue the rider to the mount first, or paint up and attach afterwards?

I would stick them together 'baremetal', you will get a better bond... and primer and washes etc will add to the bond. Painting riders and horses seperately yields ltlle benefit. I suppose you could argue that you could use different primers (for instance brown for horses)... IMHO glue first!

TTFN

batesmotel · Post by **batesmotel** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:30 pm

tvknight415 wrote:A few new questions about basing...

I picked up a couple small packs of minis I found at a hobby store in Madison, and now have 8 figures of Saracen archers and 4 figures of bedouin cavalry. I bought these primarily to give me some practice at painting and basing while I get ready to make my big army order. I'm planning on doing 2 bases of medium foot archers and 1 base of light foot, and 2 bases of light horse, with what I have. Anyways, on to my questions.....

- I have some strips of 2" balsa wood on hand. Is balsa wood a good material to use to make bases for infantry and/or cavalry? Or, should I run out and get something else to base with (stronger wood, metal, or ?????).

- The bedouin came with the riders separate from the mounts. Should I glue the rider to the mount first, or paint up and attach afterwards? Sorry if this should seem self apparent, but I've only done two mounted minis ever at 25mm scale, and one had the rider molded already to the mount, and the second was separate and I intentionally did not attach it.

- When basing, are there any other conventions I should use to demonstrate the type of unit (other than number of figures per base)? Should I do something special to indicate whether a group is drilled or undrilled, or to differentiate between protected and unprotected? Or, is that the type of thing that just gets declared during a game?

Thanks again for your continued advice (and tolerance, if any of these questions seem stupid)!

Balsa wood works for bases but is probably not the best choice. It partially depends on how thick the balsa wood is. Many of my 25mm figures are on balsa wood since thicker bases work for the bigger figures. I think I would find something else to use for 15mm figures like plastic card or metal bases. (Most of my 15s are on plastic card.)

My preferred method for painting horses and riders is to mount the horses on a painting stick and then prime and paint them, leaving the "saddle" area where the rider will be glued unpainted other than primer. Once the horses are done, then I prime the riders separately and then glue them to the mounts and paint them. This avoids the problem of trying to find a way to mount riders separately for painting.

Chris

Skullzgrinda · Post by **Skullzgrinda** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:58 pm

- I have some strips of 2" balsa wood on hand. Is balsa wood a good material to use to make bases for infantry and/or cavalry? Or, should I run out and get something else to base with (stronger wood, metal, or ?????).

Balsa, as others have indicated, is not a great choice. It warps, it is soft, it is brittle, and if you ever do decide to rebase for whatever reason, it is very difficult to shift minis off of wood. BTW, use simple white glue or at most carpenter's glue to attach the minis. Some folks have used epoxy or cyanoacrylate on metal or plastic. Really bad choice. White glue is sufficient.

There are a variety of commercial bases available precut to uniform sizes. If in budget, these are great. My personal preference is for metal, then I use a magnetic sheet underneath as a sabot to move the whole unit.

If budget is an issue, and for a young family it usually is (although this is a gloriously cheap hobby! See eg. golf; skiing; motorcycles etc.) the easiest and cheapest as metioned elsewhere is good dense cardboard. My preference back in the day was linoleum. I have tried to use it recently but now it seems to have a built in adhesive on all the tiles which I don't like. Still, it is a good, inexpensive alternative.

- The bedouin came with the riders separate from the mounts. Should I glue the rider to the mount first, or paint up and attach afterwards? Sorry if this should seem self apparent, but I've only done two mounted minis ever at 25mm scale, and one had the rider molded already to the mount, and the second was separate and I intentionally did not attach it.

This is a matter of taste and painting style. I prefer one piece castings for ease, but where I have a 2 piece I usually paint riders and horses separately and glue them together when done. They do come loose from time to time. Again, white glue is your friend.

- When basing, are there any other conventions I should use to demonstrate the type of unit (other than number of figures per base)? Should I do something special to indicate whether a group is drilled or undrilled, or to differentiate between protected and unprotected? Or, is that the type of thing that just gets declared during a game?

Declaring their status is sufficient, but you touch on one of the fun parts of miniatures wargaming, which is making mini dioramas. Scattered warriors in varied poses are greaat for howling barbarian warbands; uniformed soldiers in lockstep are great for the disciplined ranks of Spartans, Romans or Macedonians. Up to you - one of the really free and fun aspects of the hobby so do what you enjoy. Be creative!

Thanks again for your continued advice (and tolerance, if any of these questions seem stupid)!

These are all reasonable questions. It takes a lot of committment to field miniature armies, particularly historical ones.

Skullzgrinda · Post by **Skullzgrinda** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:32 pm

I forgot to mention -

Life will go much easier if your minis are mounted on something while you are painting them. Directly handling them while working them up is fiddly, difficult, and puts skin oils and acids on the primed surface. Those residues create a resist which will repel water based paints.

A lot of guys like popsickle sticks or tongue depressors. I prefer a cheap and easy fix of plastic bottle caps as a temporary mount. I also have - and prefer - a number of 1/4" dowels cut to about 1 1/2", and fixed to pennies as a base. These little pedestals are easier for me to handle than the bottle caps, but it may just be what I grew used to before there were the abundant plastic bottle caps.

Whichever you prefer, just put a small dot of white glue on the base of your mini and mount it on the temporary base. When you are done painting, slip the edge of an exacto blade just under the mini and twist, levering the mini off of the base. If you used a small amount of glue it will pop right off. If you used too much glue you will just have to keep working the blade around under the mini's base.

johno · Post by **johno** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:57 pm

Just a few comments:

UK manufacturers have to abide by whatever EEC-instigated regulation replaced the old Toy Safety Act 1952, which severely limited the amount of lead in anything vaguely resembling a "toy". Whilst there is some lead in most white metal alloys, it is very small, and has been for many years. Many manufacturers have shifted to lead free alloys, anyway.

I use strips of cereal packet as painting bases for 15mm figs, gluing them down using Copydex, which stays rubbery and peels off when painting is finished.

Glue the figures on the card, and glue the riders on the horses before you prime!

You probably already know this, but don't use expensive primer from the likes of Games Workshop, buy it from Car Accessory shops instead.

johno

spikemesq · Post by **spikemesq** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:58 pm

For handling figs while painting, old school clothespins are your friend. They sit along the edge of a box with the figure fastened to the top.

Spike

Polkovnik · Post by **Polkovnik** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:06 am

tvknight415 wrote:A few new questions about basing...

- I have some strips of 2" balsa wood on hand. Is balsa wood a good material to use to make bases for infantry and/or cavalry? Or, should I run out and get something else to base with (stronger wood, metal, or ?????).

Definitely not ! Balsa is awful as a basing material. I use pre-cut MDF bases, which cost one pound for between 10 and 30 bases (depending on size). I would imagine you can get them for similar prices in the US. So only a few dollars for bases for your whole army. Saves you the hassle of cutting them, they will be more accurately sized than you can cut yourself, and they are thick and sturdy enough to withstand frequent handling and to be able to pick up the base rather than handling the figures. By far the best way to go.

tvknight415 wrote:When basing, are there any other conventions I should use to demonstrate the type of unit (other than number of figures per base)? Should I do something special to indicate whether a group is drilled or undrilled, or to differentiate between protected and unprotected? Or, is that the type of thing that just gets declared during a game?

Many people follow the DBM convention of basing MF with 4 to a base for drilled, 3 for undrilled, so that is an option. Generally, undrilled should look less uniform - different poses, colours, etc. Whilst drilled will have a more uniform look. But there is no requirement to differentiate the figures this way.
Armour should be reasonably apparent from looking at the figures. But yes, as you say, you declare them when deploying and remind your opponent if he has forgotten and asks.

camlan · Post by **camlan** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:36 pm

ravenflight wrote:I know this may sound like going overboard, but have you considered 10mm?

I fancy 10mm quite a bit. It is kind of a cross between the 'have reasonable detail' of the 15mm and the no detail but heaps fast to paint of the 6mm.

Old Glory and Magister Militum have a good range for Crusades too.

Just my 2c worth.

I concur............I really like this scale..............great mix of mass and detail.

My Principate Romans [a few pics anyway]

Dave

Album is here:

http://s272.photobucket.com/albums/jj16 ... ith_album/

Re

gozerius · Post by **gozerius** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:58 am

Sadly, I'm about 5-1/2 hours from Chicago. Closest I get is about 2-1/2 hours away, and that's when visiting my in-laws.

So how close to Minneapolis/St Paul are you? There are plenty of FoG gamers here. And we're "Minnesota nice".
We won't even tease you about stealing your old, washed up quarterback. Oops.
There is a FoG event coming up on 7 November, query me for more details.

tvknight415 · Post by **tvknight415** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:18 pm

gozerius wrote:So how close to Minneapolis/St Paul are you? There are plenty of FoG gamers here. And we're "Minnesota nice".
We won't even tease you about stealing your old, washed up quarterback. Oops.
There is a FoG event coming up on 7 November, query me for more details.

PM sent.

tvknight415 · Post by **tvknight415** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:35 pm

Thanks to everyone for all the advice. I got in my first order of Legio Heroica miniatures from Scale Creep over the weekend and have started basing them up. I'm thinking painting will be a good way to spend my Thanksgiving weekend at the in-laws, if I can get the rest based and everything primed.

Now, on to my new noob question - when it comes to mounting figs on the bases, is a little overhang going to cause a problem? Putting 3 knights onto a base without any parts overhanging the edge seems pretty cramped (swords, lances, etc.). How much overhang is too much? Should I avoid overhanging any parts in particular (like lances & standards)?

Thanks again for the continued advice.

ethan · Post by **ethan** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:49 pm

Skullzgrinda wrote: Some folks have used epoxy or cyanoacrylate on metal or plastic. Really bad choice.

I use cyanoacrylate and really like it actually, though I base my figures on metal pre-cut bases. The thing about cyanoacrylate ("super glue") is that it is actually pretty easy to get off. Super glue is very strong - except when you torque the base when it fractures really cleanly and the figures just pop off. I certainly would not use epoxy and I find even white glue to be tougher to get off the base than super glue.

Currently, I am re-basing to a sandwhich of materials:

I use Litko flexibile steel on the bottom, Litko 3mm (I think) precut stuff as the middle and Wargames accessories pre-cut steel as the top. I do not like basing directly on the litko pre-cut bases, but like the thicker bases as I think they are easy to move around and make for an overall sturdier base.

spikemesq · Post by **spikemesq** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:16 pm

White glue is easiest for rebasing.

Simply place the stands in water up to their ankles. Wait 15 minutes or so. The figures slide right off.

Spike

gozerius · Post by **gozerius** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:29 am

I would avoid superglue if using metal bases, for the same reason it was recommended. The bond shatters if the base is dropped. A not uncommon occurance. I use a water based craft glue that dries flexible. I do use a cyanacrylate with a rubber additive that dries with more flexibilty for attatching riders to horses, battle wagons, and attatching weapons to figures.
Try to avoid overhang on the sides if possible. it makes stepping forward a lot easier if you're not catching on adjacent bases. If you must have a litle overhang on the sides, stagger the figures so you can at least maintain good side edge contact. Also, couched lances look cool, until they interfere with the base in front of you. Angle them up if possible.

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:58 am

If you ahve a dremmel tool or similar thing, I drill a hole in the saddle of the horse and under the rider between the legs and insert a thin wire so it goes from horse to inside rider. Using superglue with the wire reduces the chance that they will seperate if dropped or even just picked up.

Also if gluing in seperate weapons a small round file comes in handy, pass it a few times through the open hand it will remove any release agent used in the manufacturing process and the roughed up metal bonds better to the weapon.
If possible and I do this with my cav figs, use a flat needle nose to gently crimp the hand around the weapon when gluing it. It helps to keep them from snapping out later. I use after market pikes for my pike blocks and cavalry lancers so I have had a lot of trial and error trying to keep the lances in the cav's hands.

ethan · Post by **ethan** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:00 am

gozerius wrote:I would avoid superglue if using metal bases, for the same reason it was recommended. The bond shatters if the base is dropped.

I think this is a plus...the bond shatters not the figures ankles...

lawrenceg · Post by **lawrenceg** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:27 am

tvknight415 wrote:
Now, on to my new noob question - when it comes to mounting figs on the bases, is a little overhang going to cause a problem? Putting 3 knights onto a base without any parts overhanging the edge seems pretty cramped (swords, lances, etc.). How much overhang is too much? Should I avoid overhanging any parts in particular (like lances & standards)?

Thanks again for the continued advice.

The main things to remember with overhangs are:

Ideally, do not overhang the base. In practice this is often impossible.

Overhang the rear in preference to the front. Then you can place your bases in contact with their close combat opponents.

Arrange the figures so that any overhangs do not interfere with each other when you place two bases side by side or one behind the other.

tvknight415 · Post by **tvknight415** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:40 pm

Ok, sorry for needing more help, but I am having trouble with those three words that most parents fear, "some assembly required."...

I've been putting together Legio Heroica minis for the past couple of evenings, and maybe it's just big hands and crappy manual dexterity, but I'm having trouble getting shields to stay in position on the mini while the glue sets (Zap CA+). I'm ending up with lots of residue on my fingertips and some fingers stuck together. Any tips on how to get shields to stay in position while the glue sets up? I've thought of tweezers, but I worry I'll end up sticking the tweezers to the shield as well if I'm not careful.

Thanks.