Ottomans Rule OK!!

[petedalby]

Things i ve read in this topic opened my mind for new options, let me know your opinions

It looks good.

But I'd deploy the Janissaries last.

The extra timariots give you more shooting but protected means most other cavalry can bully you.

I'd always take an IC because of the boost for CTs, CMTs, deployment and rallying.

See how you get on.

[danikine74]

Things i ve read in this topic opened my mind for new options, let me know your opinions

It looks good.

But I'd deploy the Janissaries last.

Me too, the list was just temporal,

The extra timariots give you more shooting but protected means most other cavalry can bully you.

So better armored but average?? or only 2 BG of armored Sup timariots?? ( and a IC then)

I'd always take an IC because of the boost for CTs, CMTs, deployment and rallying.

I ussuali do so, but this time i want deriberately want to lose initiative and move first, and get some extra points. The poor Hdgun is suposd to sneak, fire and run, even in one column adding only a dice, just want the -1 to morale test

See how you get on.

I will tell you next monday.

[ottomanmjm]

This is my new later ottoman turk list. I want to ply a bit before a Championship, in october, in Estella , Navarra.

Things i ve read in this topic opened my mind for new options, let me know your opinions

8x Azaps LF, poor, bow
4x Ajinjis
4x Akinjis
4x Other LH ( akinjis, beduin, or balkan )

4x Azab Handgunner, poor (16 points !!!!)
8x jenissaries( prot)
4x timariots Prot, sup
4x timariots prot, sup

4x Timariots Armoured Superior
4x Qapuqulu, superior
8x jenissary (prot)

4x Azaps HdG poor
2x Qapuqulu superior
4x Serbian Kn full metal jacket

2x FF ( for deplyment tricks or upgrade BG 2 Qapuqulus to elite)

CnC is a TC, others a FC and a TC and the serbian Allied TC. That makes only a +1 to initiative ( CnC is not either a IC or a FC and just +1 of more than 24 Cv/LH)

I Think this list is playable, never did it with 3 poor BGs but i lll try

You can run the Handgunners as Average, unprotected for 4 points each. Also if you drop the FF you can upgrade one unit of handgunners Janissary handgunners as Superior,unprotected. These guys need to be able to shoot not fight.

[ottomanmjm]

I played against Ottoman last Thursday at our club. I think your army design is slightly flawed. Your cav should all be armoured or you will be down in melee against good cav.

Just my thoughts.


Ray

I think that the Superior,Protected Timariots are great value for the points. Run them in one rank so they can evade from anything nasty, thats if you dont shoot them up before they can charge. I have shot up and run down longbowmen with these troops (the longbowmen did not have stakes and I had an Inspired CinC nearby which helped)

[richafricanus]

I'm interested to know why you rate Janissaries so highly. I have struggled with bow, finding the shooting not very effective against mounted, especially knights, but even armoured cavalry will be up on you in the melee? What am I missing?

[petedalby]

What am I missing?

The distances are all-important.

If vs Cav - advance to just inside 6" - you have a long range shot. The cav advance to charge range - probably 5" - you have another shot at long range. Then you advance to within 4" - you have a shot at close range.

So you've had 3 shots, hitting on 4's, re-rolling 1's - you should have caused 1, maybe 2 CTs?

When they charge in, with a bit of luck, they're disrupted. But let's assume they're not. They charge in - they have typically 4 dice looking for 4's, 3's if they have lances. You have 6 dice looking for 5's, and you should have a general with so you're re-rolling 1's & 2's.

I don't know what the odds are but you'll be unlucky to lose by more than 2. But if you do, you're taking a CT on worse at minus 3, which should be negated by your IC and rear support - of course you do need to make sure both of these things are available! So you're looking for a 7 or better with Superiors.

In the melee, same again - the Cav should be on 4's, you're looking for 5's - but deployed in a BG of 8 with a bit of luck you have an overlap. Again you may lose, but provided you don't go disrupted the Cav must break off.

You then advance and give them another close range shot. Rinse and repeat.

Yes, it can go wrong - but most of the time it won't.

For knights - it's the same scenario - you just get more close range shots because of their shorter charge range.

See how you get on.

[ethan]

the other factor is that to take on 16 stands of jannissary bows with cavalry, you probably need either 16 stand of Cavalry or 8 stands of knights. Now they might well beat the Jannissaries (although see previous post for that discussion) but for most mounted armies that is a substantial chunk of their heavy mounted. Cavalry heavy armies often only have 4-7 BGs of cavalry and many knight armies have 4 or fewer BGs of knights. The Ottomans now have 2-4 BGs of cavalry that are free to do something else...pick on LH, attack flanks, whatever.

[danikine74]

I ussualy played with one janisssaries BG now,i cannot imagine that list without 2 BGs. hey are MF, better not to be caught in the open, and yo can choose uneven terrain or rough, they wont come so easy! and if they do...
The janissaries are not alone, some very good also shooting Cv may be near, they can put some handgunners shoot for a further -1 on morale checks, they can add some Lh bow dices...
Is the whole combination of units that makes that army one of the most played.

I played yersterday vs a late roman army of 15 BG and i made 15 atrition points. It performed very goos. I missed that IC commander. But i liked to deploy first and move first, i was charging with the Kn very soon.
i gave the center where i deployed mainly LF mostly poor and they suffered a lot the roman LF shoot and charges, and som of my LF BG broke after failing moral test...( free points for The enemy) but i managed to win on both wings,

on the left he put one LH, two camelry poor BG and a Sup Armored roman CV,i fougth them with a akinjis BG, a Janissaries and a armored superior BG. and he lost one camel BG, the Cv BG and the LH BG.

On the right, i charged with the serbian Kn vs an 6 Off Spermen BG and a sup Cv 4 elements BG, i did not disrupt but i lose one base... but thet disrupted the roman Cv, fragmented by akinjis shot , and routed when charged by those akinjis . Then the serbians broke, but a akinjis LH, a 4 timariotsBG and a 2 basees qapukulu BG were shooting the remaining Spear BG and broke them down.
Whith one timariots BG i broke one roman LH but another one broke me too, aweful moreale rolls...

Near the center a BG of protected heavy weapons impact foot (thracians) charged the janissaries. On the impact i made 5 impacts ( 8 5+dices and 4 +-5+ of supporting archers ) he only 3. He failed morale and lose one base....
In the melee he was fighting with 5 me with 8 bases... he lose and broke. Roman legions were quite near, but i pursued and i gt far from them!!

And well he loses the battle... He is a very good player and i was very satisfied with the performance