Probably grinding an old ax: Compatibility of movement rates

[ethan]

14MPH is probably slow for the charge. A quick internet search suggests 30 MPH or is probably not unreasonable (Thoroughbreads can hit upwards of 50MPH, I saw other things suggesting Arabians can hit 40 MPH but then none of these are carrying a fully armored knight and they are doing it once from being fully rested).

This means that 200 yards charge takes 10s or so.

But I don't think this really changes the fact that our knights and heavy cavalry are probably conserving their mounts strength and endurance for that charge rather than trotting all over the battlefield to move quickly.

I believe Mongols had numerous remounts and expected to change mounts during a battle and ride them into the ground each time.

[hazelbark]

200 yards in 21 seconds, seems not that fast, since i would estimate a human could do so (in battle gear) in about 30 seconds (depending on weight of kit)

50-yard dash world record is like 5.2 seconds.

The all time 200 meter record holder is 19.30 seconds.

I would bet heavily against someone in battle gear making those times.

[dave_r]

50-yard dash world record is like 5.2 seconds. The all time 200 meter record holder is 19.30 seconds. I would bet heavily against someone in battle gear making those times.

Whilst I am in favour of the move distances as they stand, the above statistics do lack a certain credibility...

However, we do need to be careful before castigating them too much.

200 Yards is actually only 180 Metres (spelt correctly I hope you will notice), and when we were all 16 years old, in our running gear, I am sure we could all manage around 25 seconds for the 200 metres, so if we add on 10% because we aren't Olympic sprinters then that neatly equates to the extra 10% (about) distance travelled.

I am sure some fat, unfit, 40 year old farmer could manage around the same speed in his rusted armour and unwieldy pike *....


* I can hear the Porcine aerial acrobatics team warming up in the distance

[deadtorius]

I can hear the Porcine aerial acrobatics team warming up in the distance

I think that might be the sounds of 40 year old rusty wargamers warming up at the bar you hear

[grahambriggs]

I'm not sure that the differential speed is wrong in the rules. LH can move 14MU over uneven in a bound when they aren't distracted by the enemy. So they can race up to just over 6MU from heavy foot, who'll then chug forwards 2MU.

Moving a group of people in any reasonable order is much slower than moving as individuals, so while top speeds are interesting I don't see they're that relevant. A close order shieldwall, for example, is harder to move in proper order and keep it safe than the looser formations that the typical MF types can adopt.

Also, aside from transcribing into real speeds, I don't see that the games rules are broken. There are plenty of threads bemoaning the slipperiness of light horse and few saying that they are too slow.

[shall]

All speeds were carefully calibrated from a game balance point of view bearing in mind table size, army size, mix of armies and firing ranges. They are primarily set to give good balanced game and the right feel when combined with the vmd. what matters is not the speed but the odds of getting caught and the ability to use a hf army effectively in the timeframe. All of course subject to the distances making some bottom-up sense.

So far I wouldn't rush to change anything. Of course give me 5 hour games and I might do something different .. .... so just to say they are driven from a game design point of view with a reality check rather than bottom up.

We tried quite a few versions by the way.

Si

PS riding in formation is much slower than you might think ....

[hazelbark]

50-yard dash world record is like 5.2 seconds. The all time 200 meter record holder is 19.30 seconds. I would bet heavily against someone in battle gear making those times.

Whilst I am in favour of the move distances as they stand, the above statistics do lack a certain credibility...

200 Yards is actually only 180 Metres (spelt correctly I hope you will notice),

Well I pulled them off wikipedia so who knows.

As for that metric thing, its all scam. I prefer to use cubits as measurements.

How fast can Mr Ruddock explain away being defeated by an American (in DBM)? Faster that a speeding...electron.

[grahambriggs]

How fast can Mr Ruddock explain away being defeated by an American (in DBM)? Faster that a speeding...electron.

"River" Ruddock has a number of amusing DBM defeats to his name. My favourite was:

- he invades Akkad while thirsty without the sense to go near a river.

- he approaches the hamlet of Mutta Mutta, getting a pip dump command level with the hamlet but 5 feet of baseline away, hemmed in by straddle cars.

- the Akkadian pikes hit his line of hoplites.

- he only then gets to read the rule that says you have to be level with a friendly BUA to count it as a water source.

Oh how we laughed.

[dave_r]

- he only then gets to read the rule that says you have to be level with a friendly BUA to count it as a water source.

Oh how we laughed.

I guess you must have laughed enough for both of us Graham...

The truly annoying thing is that my army wouldn't have broken if the pip dump command had not been isolated, surrounded and destroyed by those effing straddle cars....

[nikgaukroger]

The truly annoying thing is that my army wouldn't have broken if...

Dave hadn't fucked up

[shall]

There's a tee shirt with that one somewhere ....

Si