What's a good quailty "steam roller" army?

ethan · Post by **ethan** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:26 pm

footslogger wrote: Ugly?

Please, just don't show up at a 28mm competition with this kind of crap. What you do on your own game table is fine with me....

I can't speak for 20mm stuff, but the new 25mm plastics I saw at Historicon over the weekend were very nice. I don't play 25mm but for someone who was looking for an economical option in that scale they would be perfectly acceptable IMO.

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:17 pm

There will always be a prejudice against 20mm plastic armies I think. I have several of them painted years ago, but my return to ancient gaming is in lead. Most of my collection is metal but I do have a fair bit of painted (and unpainted) plastic too. As one friend of mine once pointed out, plastic is lighter so they can outmanouver any of the heavy lead figures they may be up against.
As for competitions, if someone brings the army based to 25mm I don't see why they could not play it. It is cheaper cost to build an army with plastic. Dont discourage a new player with your metal prejudices, just be glad to see some new blood in the hobby.

Skullzgrinda · Post by **Skullzgrinda** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:03 am

footslogger wrote:
lawrenceg wrote:
footslogger wrote: What an outstandingly bad idea?
Less figures needed to fill the table than 15 mm, figures are cheaper in money terms than metal, they are usually better physically proportioned than metal, they fit on the bases more easily than the 28 mm monstrosities that currently prevail, they are lighter and more robust.

What's bad about the idea?
Ugly?

Please, just don't show up at a 28mm competition with this kind of crap. What you do on your own game table is fine with me....

That is more than a bit rough. Right now the exchange rate sucks, postage is high, and jobs are withering up in the US. People do what they need to do for the neds of their own households. I was just considering getting a 25mm army, and found that just a few score skirmish troops cost what an army did a year or so ago. Attitudes like this permanently turned me off of Napoleonics twenty years ago.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:15 am

That is more than a bit rough. Right now the exchange rate sucks, postage is high, and jobs are withering up in the US. People do what they need to do for the neds of their own households. I was just considering getting a 25mm army, and found that just a few score skirmish troops cost what an army did a year or so ago. Attitudes like this permanently turned me off of Napoleonics twenty years ago.

I had to take myself off another list due to this same argument. I may be taking myself off this one for a while very soon.

I agree, People should be able to play games. If you are so far up your own arse that 20mm can't play 25mm, but 25mm can play 28 or 30mm, 'cos it looks good for you kiss my ARSE.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:25 am

Footslogger, really wrote:Please, just don't show up at a 28mm competition with this kind of crap. What you do on your own game table is fine with me....

Whoever you are Footslogger (although I can't believe you have ever gone more than 30K) this attitude does not encourage more people to play the game. Perhaps playing with just your close friends is good enough for you?

Stay with them.

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:52 am

Moderator comment:

Gentlemen please behave.

benos · Post by **benos** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:47 am

as a critique

most 25/28mm figures in my experience struggle to fit on the stated 25mm base sizes in the relevant numbers (for example getting 4 of my GB vikings on a 60mm wide base is a struggle, though my 28mm are based for a different system)
20mm seems a good comprimise, now newline designs do some 20mm metal figures for a selection of ranges and from what i have seen are pretty good, however i personally see no problem with my opponent turning up with any figures corectly based as long as i can tell what they are. if my opponent has gone to the trouble to base and paint the figures well i will not be complaining if they are plastic,metal or wood

(especially as my 15mm early armenians ended up with green horses , a curse of the colour blind!)

Ben

CLAVDIVS · Post by **CLAVDIVS** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:24 pm

Hi all,

I have had the same problem with today’s figures which are bigger than 28mm, so I have only used 3 figures for Heavy Infantry and Medium Infantry, 2 figures for Heavy cavalry and knights + Cataphracts, 1 figure for light horse and 2 figures for light Infantry see photo’s

footslogger · Post by **footslogger** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:28 am

nikgaukroger wrote:Moderator comment:

Gentlemen please behave.

I'm sorry Phil, Lawrence, and Nik, about the inflammatory language.

Scrumpy · Post by **Scrumpy** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:42 pm

Getting back to the original question....

What about Italo-Norman ? Wall-to-wall armoured knights at 20 pts a pop. You could get 32 of them & 4 tc's to lead them in a headlong dash to glory ! ( Or the bar / traders hall etc )

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:43 pm

Nicely painted figures Caudius.
I have to agree that it would be nice if the figure manufacturers could make the figs a bit more game basing friendly but the general trend has been to make them bigger. Easier to paint, especially for those of us whose eyes are not so good, and easier to sculpt detail on them. The base size could make it easy enough to tell what is what I guess.

CLAVDIVS · Post by **CLAVDIVS** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:33 pm

hi and thanks for your post:)

I agree with you, I use 60mm by 50mm for my cavalry,kights and cataphracts the 10mm deeper base for my cavalry, kights and cataphracts makes it easier to base my mounted figures with out the figure hanging over the base and only 60mm by 40mm for my light horse as per the rules as I only put 1 figure on light horse bases

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:03 pm

Scrumpy wrote:Getting back to the original question....

What about Italo-Norman ? Wall-to-wall armoured knights at 20 pts a pop. You could get 32 of them & 4 tc's to lead them in a headlong dash to glory ! ( Or the bar / traders hall etc )

Well you need more in their tool kit to bulk them up, but fearsome.

Scrumpy · Post by **Scrumpy** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:47 pm

Rest assured that was not my list for our game wednesday !

Skullzgrinda · Post by **Skullzgrinda** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:18 am

hazelbark wrote:
Scrumpy wrote:Getting back to the original question....

What about Italo-Norman ? Wall-to-wall armoured knights at 20 pts a pop. You could get 32 of them & 4 tc's to lead them in a headlong dash to glory ! ( Or the bar / traders hall etc )
Well you need more in their tool kit to bulk them up, but fearsome.

Are Norman knights that good? I looked the list over for western Normans and they looked kind of bland. I was disappointed as somewhere in all of my junk I have a box of 15mm Normans. I have been collecting minis for about 20 years and painting for only about 3 years in that interval . . .

The Normans did look like a fire and forget list, but looked kind of primitive and fragile too.

dave_r · Post by **dave_r** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:56 am

Anglo-Norman aren't bad - they get buckets of rubbish spearmen in big BG's and lot's of effective skirmishers.

Put down loads of difficult going and flood with LF - put plenty of Armoured Knights in the gaps. Cheerleaders at the back.

Not an army I would bring to an open competition, but it is quite effective and certainly fun to play. Games don't last too long either....

DaiSho · Post by **DaiSho** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:13 am

deadtorius wrote:Easier to paint, especially for those of us whose eyes are not so good, and easier to sculpt detail on them. The base size could make it easy enough to tell what is what I guess.

I'm not sure I agree with that. I personally find my 10mm figures easier to paint than my 15mm, and 15mm easier to paint than 25's. That's because you don't have to go as hard core with the detail. A hint of detail is suffice at smaller scales.

Up close my figures look pretty rough, but I think they look quite good in a group on the battlefield. I had one guy come up to me and the conversation went something like this:

'I don't know how you paint so nicely' he says,
'they're not that good actually if you look close' I reply,
'Everyone who paints nicely says that' he retorts,
'No, seriously, look close. It's a very basic paint job. The basing is done nicely, and I've spent some time on shading, but the basic paint job is... well... basic'
'Well, they look pretty good to me.'

The thing I find with smaller scales is the 'over-all effect' is more important, so you can spend a bit of time with some static grass, some rocks and some logs which make the 'diorama' look nice.

Trying to crap 4 15mm warband type figures on a 40mmx15mm base makes them look too cramped and it doesn't matter how nicely painted they are, the overall effect is somewhat spoiled.

If you're out there figurine manufacturers... go smaller with the figures... they look better and I'll buy more!

Ian

ValentinianVictor · Post by **ValentinianVictor** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:59 pm

Just a quick point, if you were playing a competition game with less than the required number of figures per base, as required by the rules, and your opponent objected to this, could you become disqualified from the competition for fielding an 'illegal' army?

dave_r · Post by **dave_r** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:18 pm

Just a quick point, if you were playing a competition game with less than the required number of figures per base, as required by the rules, and your opponent objected to this, could you become disqualified from the competition for fielding an 'illegal' army?

In reality no. If you were trying to gain an advantage out of it then maybe, but as long as you are consistent and fully define all the troops on the table then there shouldn't be a problem.

i.e. Divvy Clav's example above is fine as they are consistent - one to a base LH, two to a base Cav, etc. The problem would be if SOME of the LH were two to a base...

Skullzgrinda · Post by **Skullzgrinda** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:56 am

dave_r wrote:Anglo-Norman aren't bad - they get buckets of rubbish spearmen in big BG's and lot's of effective skirmishers.

Put down loads of difficult going and flood with LF - put plenty of Armoured Knights in the gaps. Cheerleaders at the back.

Not an army I would bring to an open competition, but it is quite effective and certainly fun to play. Games don't last too long either....

Thank you Dave. Would 15mm Huns or Skythians be better for a tournament?

Sorry for the noobish questions but it is hard to get a feel for FoG until I am actually in it. Too busy for now, but I am trying ito get a jump on some painting.

What's a good quailty "steam roller" army?

miniatures