Medium Foot

[ethan]

The extra (-) against mounted in the open is the big penalty IMO. It means most superior cavalry can decide to turn on MF OS and probably ride them down (even with superior at impact, then even at worst in melee with superior) while against say HF OS the (-) at impact makes that a likely loser.

Superior cavalry vs. MF OS in impact: 4/3 hit per frontage vs. 1 hit per frontage
Superior cavalry vs. HF OS in impact: 8/9 hit per frontage vs. 1 hit per frontage

So in say a 4 wide fight the difference between fighting MF and HF in impact by Ghilman is something 5 1/3 hits vs. 3 5/9 or around 1.6 hits. Which qualitatively is something "Probably win" to "Probably lose."

[johno]

I have to say my New Kingdom Egyptian medium foot haven't cut the mustard as the close combat backbone of my battle line!

They have proven far too vulnerable if caught in the open by anything other than other MF - so much so that I keep wondering whether I've got the rules wrong.

Recently, they failed to beat their own number of Babylonian Archers, despite their Swordsman advantage!

Even my Armoured Bosporan City Militia have fared very badly except against other MF - and even then, have often struggled because of being outnumbered.

The Late Dynastic HF Defensive Spear have been much more durable, even when I tried them as Poor troops!

I certainly don't see MF as better value than HF, and regard them as a poor substitute for genuine line infantry, similarly-equipped, at equivalent points

johno

[TERRYFROMSPOKANE]

I agree. It may just be my poor generalship, but in my experience medium foot that venture out of terrain find themselves in trouble. I have had some success leaving them in terrain to anchor the flank of a main battle line or to protect the flank of the whole army, but in the open, my medium foot are just a magnet for enemy cavalry and heavy foot. I understand "VAMRAT"'s point, but I would have said the opposite - if anything, MF should cost less points than matching HF.

Terry G.

[grahambriggs]

The problem with MF in the open is that the combat factors give you a false sense of security. "I'm equal at impact and in melee". Well yes, you often are but the difference is that as the dice see saw you are significantly more likely to fail your tests. Then you're on a very steep slope.

Consider 8 MF average protected offensive spear vs 8 superior armoured cavalry with sword. Equal POAs all round (slight deg to the cav as superior). Let's say both have rear support.

Let's say at impact one Cav draws 3-3 and one loses 3-2. The losing cav needs to roll a seven to keep steady and is likely to do so, and 50:50 will lose a base. If they don't then they may or may not frag but will break off and could recover.

Instead, let's say one cav draws 3-3 and the other wins 3-2. The MF lose a base. They need to roll an 8 to avoid disruption and probably won't. If they disrupt then the cavalry are a POA up as they get to use their swords. So 8 dice looking for 4s vs 5 dice looking for 5s. Chances are the MF will lose or lose heavily. In the resulting cohesion test they will therefore need to roll 9 or 10 to pass depending on the heaviness of their beating so are likely to frag. and may even break.

The same sort of thing seems to happen against decent heavy foot - it's all looking good until you lose a round of combat.

Realistically I think the MF have to either have imppact advantage or melee advantage to risk it - which tends to mean the more expensive types.

[ethan]

The role where I see MF as valuable - especially things like Protected Average Offensive Spear - is lurking on the wings, not necessarily just in terrain. You can't just throw junk at them to hold them off, they move reasonably fast and throwing say 4 good cavalry at a BG of 8 of them is probably a loser. In 8s or 10s they are hard to hurt with shooting, at least not without committing 'real' troops to the task. They are pretty cheap and in numbers are dangerous.

[hazelbark]

MF can seem to be better than HF for the same points and in some ways they are (better move, better in terrain). However, they are vulnerable to cavalry in the open and against otherwise equal HF they will lose in the long run. That -1 on CT can make quite a difference when you go from needing a 7 to pass to an 8.
It's good to have some MF in most armies to occupy terrain but if you have a lot and leave them in the open they will be a nice target for enemy mounted and HF.

This goes back to what kind of MF. Dailami especially when superior are just fine.

And it is often risky for mounted to think they will blow through MF protected if the mounted are outnumbered.

[hazelbark]

Consider 8 MF average protected offensive spear vs 8 superior armoured cavalry with sword. Equal POAs all round (slight deg to the cav as superior). Let's say both have rear support.

That is of course 8 v 8. That will allow the Cav to win. But it is too often that people throw weaker stuff at foot or there is another Foot BG and both BGs are fighting so one cav may be forced to break off.

The other big wrinkle is there can be a LOT of uneven ground around and Cav loses the 1 per 3 dice in their and the MF doesn't.

[Fulgrim]

Hmm.. MF OS vs HF imp. foot are at -- POA in the open,

This may've been a typo but MF OS vs HF Imp Foot are only at a single minus at impact in the open.

Pete

Oh, sorry , my mind was faster than my typing i guess, i was at -2 to CT mentally (loosing to imp.foot and MF in the open vs HF)

[Blathergut]

Drilled ancient Spanish MF under Sertorius are awfully nimble in 4paks

[DaiSho]

Drilled ancient Spanish MF under Sertorius are awfully nimble in 4paks

Holy shyte they would be!

Ian

[shall]

Oh B***r that's just rumbled my Britcon army

As for MF in the open. I love 'em - fast and fragile. Really good for the heart rate.

Fear of cavalry - carry a big bow!

As for armoured medium foot ... IMHO the single best troop type in the game so far is the Persian Immortals - MF Drilled, Armoured, Lt Sp, Bw, Superior. Try playing Graham Briggs with 2 x 8s of those devils. They are very tasty indeed. Vulberable in the open to cavalry - yes there are few piles of bodies of people who thought that!!

Not for the faint-hearted big MF armies, you really need to look after them to make them work. But if you can master them they work very well.

Si

[rbodleyscott]

Of course the real problem is that I can't think of any army that can have more than one or two BGs of armoured MF offensive spear.

Later Mycenaean/Trojan dismounted charioteers.

Armoured, Superior, MF, OS. Oooer missus.

Plus 12 more armoured MF OS in the main infantry, and then there are Achilles's myrmidons (Superior, Armoured MF, Impact Foot, Swordsmen) as well.

[LambertSimnel]

Of course the real problem is that I can't think of any army that can have more than one or two BGs of armoured MF offensive spear.

Later Mycenaean/Trojan dismounted charioteers.

Armoured, Superior, MF, OS. Oooer missus.

Plus 12 more armoured MF OS in the main infantry, and then there are Achilles's myrmidons (Superior, Armoured MF, Impact Foot, Swordsmen) as well.

and because you bought them as LCh they improve your chance to gain the initiative and cover the table with terrain

[grahambriggs]

Oh B***r that's just rumbled my Britcon army

As for MF in the open. I love 'em - fast and fragile. Really good for the heart rate.

Fear of cavalry - carry a big bow!

As for armoured medium foot ... IMHO the single best troop type in the game so far is the Persian Immortals - MF Drilled, Armoured, Lt Sp, Bw, Superior. Try playing Graham Briggs with 2 x 8s of those devils. They are very tasty indeed. Vulberable in the open to cavalry - yes there are few piles of bodies of people who thought that!!

Not for the faint-hearted big MF armies, you really need to look after them to make them work. But if you can master them they work very well.

Si

The only problem with the immortals against proper mounted is that you need the works - generals and rear support, so perhaps 330-340 points committed. makes for a small army elsewhere. They are very good troops against many things but 12 points a base - ouch!

G

[shall]

All true but still my favoutie 12 point a base troop type so far

Si

[DaiSho]

All true but still my favoutie 12 point a base troop type so far

Si

Even more favourite that Viking Huscarls? Surely not!! Say it isn't so!!!

Ian

[shall]

It is in 15mm .... but my 25mm Huscarls are looking tasty for that scale ... so its close.

Si

[DaiSho]

It is in 15mm .... but my 25mm Huscarls are looking tasty for that scale ... so its close.

Si

I reckon if my Huscarls heard you say that they only have an inch they'd knock ya block off mate!