Proposal - Rebalance Prestige

[adiekmann]

This whole prestige/capture issue is a nonissue for me. I find it rather boring to play where my whole goal is to capture everything. It isn't fun. I want to smash and move on. So, those players just simply need to not choose those traits and force themselves to play more like they did in PC1.

However, if I have Overwhelming Attack and Envelopment/Shock Tactics on a unit, that can be very powerful and is a great "money" maker too even without Trophies and/or Scavenger. On play throughs where I did not get those it was much more challenging to earn enough prestige on the medium (colonel?) difficulty. This tells me that there isn't a prestige issue if you are not utilizing either of these two elements (the whole Power 4/capture everything and OA/Envelopment).

I also don't like having my army full of foreign equipment anyway. In SCW, you really have no choice. It becomes much more difficult if you don't utilize captured enemy artillery and tanks. That is one of the reasons why it probably still remains the most difficult DLC so far IMO.

Perhaps the real solution is not to remove the entire surrender mechanic, but just greatly reduce or even eliminate the entire prestige reward for captures. Make it free to use captured equipment, but you don't get more resources for capturing it. By capturing a bunch of British vehicles, Rommel didn't get a boatload of fuel, did he? No. And likewise the OKW did not say, "Oh, you captured some British equipment so we're not sending you as many supplies and German equipment" in response. No, it was just bonus equipment when it was useful. Why should you get prestige for capturing a bunch of crappy 2-pounder AT guns that you won't even use?

This would restore balance to the Force - er, I mean game - by redirecting and emphasizing other aspects of the game as intended without the prestige glut.

[ESPADATXI]

Perhaps the real solution is not to remove the entire surrender mechanic, but just greatly reduce or even eliminate the entire prestige reward for captures. Make it free to use captured equipment, but you don't get more resources for capturing it. By capturing a bunch of British vehicles, Rommel didn't get a boatload of fuel, did he? No. And likewise the OKW did not say, "Oh, you captured some British equipment so we're not sending you as many supplies and German equipment" in response. No, it was just bonus equipment when it was useful. Why should you get prestige for capturing a bunch of crappy 2-pounder AT guns that you won't even use?

This would restore balance to the Force - er, I mean game - by redirecting and emphasizing other aspects of the game as intended without the prestige glut.

+1

[brettz123]

My personal opinion is that the balance with this game is a real mess, let me explain.

In Panzer Corps 1 the game was basically balanced around how you could win the game and it was a race against the turn clock, prestige had to be managed but it wasn't usually the deciding factor on whether or not you progressed through the campaigns. Of course there were exceptions for people who did extremely poorly or extremely well. This was changed in Panzer Corps 2, in my opinion, so that prestige in many ways became the balancing factor. Unfortunately, this was also coupled with some ways to totally break the prestige mechanic. The choice of traits as well as certain hero combinations totally breaks the balance of this game and in all honesty it is a bit of a mess. To me it seems like this makes the game either too easy for people who understand the mechanics or too frustrating for those who either don't get it or want to play in a manner that they see as more realistic.

Either way it is a problem, and when you look at steam you can see that only 13% of the owners of the game have finished the original campaign, 5.3% the SCW, 2.8% the 39 campaign, and 1.9% the 40 campaign. Those numbers are not very good and while the game is newer all those numbers are worse than the original Panzer Corps which didn't even come out on steam until what 3 years after it was released? My memory is a little foggy on that.

Steam numbers for Panzer Corps
1939 DLC 12%
1940 DLC 10.1%

[R2G2]

Wow, what an excellent gameplay topic discussion! Ultimately, I suspect the Devs will nerf capture/surrender prestige to balance things out. It should be the quickest and easiest change to improve this issue.

In the mean time, I feel a temporary fix has already been put into the game. For those of us utilizing the Power 4, select the following to prevent Prestige overload and create a real challenge:

1) Generalissimus Difficulty (mandatory for Power 4 players)
2) Europe on a Shoestring Special Challenge (mandatory for Power 4 players)
3) Force Dispersion Trait (optional / IMO best trait for balancing overall gameplay / surprisingly it has a decent effect on prestige)
4) Trophies of War Trait (optional, but ONLY on the SCW DLC because the Spanish AI prevents so many captures)

I usually find myself around the 4K-8K prestige range with these options, but I also play with a custom Mod that increases prestige cost on various units.

Once I can figure out a Mod Manager issue, I plan to upload several Steam Mods related to prestige cost increases. For example, all German units +10%, +20%, and +30% prestige costs. They would essentially act like the slider bar that's been mentioned in this post.

[eddieballgame]

Edmon makes some great points on the 'op-ness' of 'Encirclement'.
In the 'Rules' there is this;
"encircled_accuracy_penalty" : 5,
"encircled_initiative_penalty" : 1,
"encircled_suppression" : 2

What is going on here & would any adjustments to these numbers have a positive impact per a tiny solution to what Edmon was referencing?

[R2G2]

What is going on here & would any adjustments to these numbers have a positive impact per a tiny solution to what Edmon was referencing?

Nerfing those rules wouldn't resolve the prestige overload issue and it would also punish players who don't use the Power 4 traits.

But you did give me a good idea for a new Mod. Rebalancing the General Trait costs to require additional weaknesses if you want to play with the Power 4. Thanks!

[eddieballgame]

What is going on here & would any adjustments to these numbers have a positive impact per a tiny solution to what Edmon was referencing?

Nerfing those rules wouldn't resolve the prestige overload issue and it would also punish players who don't use the Power 4 traits.

But you did give me a good idea for a new Mod. Rebalancing the General Trait costs to require additional weaknesses if you want to play with the Power 4. Thanks!

You are welcome & yes...fiddling with the 'Trait' numbers is one way to resolve any issue one has with any potential 'op' strategies.
Also, for example...forcing one to start with a negative, no more than 1 or 2 positive 'Traits', God forbid no 'Traits' at all...& on & on.
It is a single player game for the most part (though multiplayer is a blast) & the options to tweak many aspects of gameplay is one of the many pluses this great game offers.
Of course, like Edmon & others have pointed out...not all 'op' strategies can be implemented by the casual gamer; so your point is well taken.
Would be very interested in what you come with.