Battlefield: Europe MOD v2.4

[VanBishop]

Alright then, I'll just throw out some ideas, most likely impossible to impossible to implement due to game engine (something that is totally obscure to me).

1) Partisans
Up until 1944 partisans had very little impact in terms of casualties. They certainly did not attack Panzers in the middle of the French Camargue, or siege Athens.
What they did though, with increasing effectiveness throughout the war, as the Allies were getting closer, was disrupt supply routes, reduce morale, damage railways and so forth.
In my playthrough, I've dealt with the 100 plus partisan divisions with a total of 10 reserve infantry divisions (From Hungary and Bulgary) and 2 old recon units spread over the 4 partisan theaters. Overall, while annoying, it had a minimal impact on my campaign as I could employ the lowest quality units and never upgrade them nor give them elite reinforcements.
What could "hurt" more realistically? Maybe events. As long as the UK is in England, there's a chance to lose prestige due to partisan activity in France and Norway. As long as the SU holds Moscow or Leningrad, same thing happens in the marshes and so on. Maybe this chance could be reduced or avoided if there is one infantry in each objective city for the theater. I figure leaving Norway, France, and Balkans devoid of any "front-ready" units could cost up to 300 prestige per turn.
The overall number of train transports could be reduced, say by 1 (and up to 3).

2) Transportation
I have strong doubts there's any solution for this, but who knows.
What made my life easier on the Eastern front, was a massive use of the railways. First to move all anti-air to France, then to move the units I needed for Sea Lion, to shift front from Caucasus to Kursk, then to move back all the anti-air once Great Britain had been conquered. It did require some micro-planning, but it worked like a charm.
Point is, the German and Russian rail tracks were incompatible, as they had different gauges. So, Germans had to convert Russian tracks in order to use their own trains, and for the most part they employed whatever leftover Russian trains they managed to salvage instead. This created quite the logistical nightmare that amplified the "mud" issue. I wonder if there's a way to implement this somehow as in "no railways" in Russia till a big city is conquered, and then they appear once given cities have been conquered.

3) Winter
While the loss of strength points hits the prestige quite hard, it does not pose a real threat if you keep your units strong enough. The way I see it, is that on top of that, some, if not all, Axis ground units should also lose organization. That would make Russian counterattacks more meaningful. I wonder if that could be simulated.

That's all!

[Chris101075]

Is there a briefing for this mod? There are many questions, e.g. if sinking a convoy, will british presitge be reduced per step or only if the merchant is sunk... things like this

Greetings

[Ostrava]

5) Move my best 3 tanks, 3 elite infantry (jager, engineer, grenadier) and 2 Italian artilleries to France, to get ready for Sea Lion.

Wait, you managed to conquer England with only 8 units ?

[McGuba]

Alright then, I'll just throw out some ideas, most likely impossible to impossible to implement due to game engine (something that is totally obscure to me).

There is no harm in giving more ideas. If they make sense and if I have the technical means I can attempt to add them, as it happened in the past on many occasions. However, this mod is already quite complex (I have added even more scripts, content and new units for v1.9) and the AI zones are stuffed so most likely I cannot improve it significantly.

1) Partisans
...
As long as the UK is in England, there's a chance to lose prestige due to partisan activity in France and Norway. As long as the SU holds Moscow or Leningrad, same thing happens in the marshes and so on. Maybe this chance could be reduced or avoided if there is one infantry in each objective city for the theater. I figure leaving Norway, France, and Balkans devoid of any "front-ready" units could cost up to 300 prestige per turn.

I have no more AI zones for France, Balkans, Norway or other places like that. There are only 32 available AI zones in the game which can be used for different scripts or triggers for events like these. And I have already used all 32 zones for other, more important stuff like major victory objectives (Malta, Moscow, etc), oil fields, convoy routes, landing zones and the like. Unfortunately there is no place for side shows.

The overall number of train transports could be reduced, say by 1 (and up to 3)

The number or generic (air, land, naval) transports cannot be changed during a scenario, unless one or more of them gets destroyed by the enemy physically.

2) Transportation
...
Point is, the German and Russian rail tracks were incompatible, as they had different gauges. So, Germans had to convert Russian tracks in order to use their own trains, and for the most part they employed whatever leftover Russian trains they managed to salvage instead. This created quite the logistical nightmare that amplified the "mud" issue. I wonder if there's a way to implement this somehow as in "no railways" in Russia till a big city is conquered, and then they appear once given cities have been conquered.

Yes, I am aware of the different track width in the SU and the incompatibility. But as far as I know they could solve it fairly quickly by changing the tracks of the wagons or by simply reloading the goods to the right train at the historical border. That's how they did it before the war to transport goods so they had a well tested method. It did cause some delay, but in terms of the mod (15 days / turn) it should not make a big difference. It would be possible to simulate it by ending the railway at the historical Soviet border and then to continue it 1 hex away. Then players would need to disembark and then move one hex and then embark again. But then it would take more than one month in game time which would be unrealistic.

I do not really mind if players use rail transport to a great degree as it was like that historically. Germans were (and are) the masters of logistics and they were able to transfere whole corps and armies between the distant theaters fairly quickly. The real problem were the partisans, who always blew up the railroad at many places simultaniously. That's why I tried to make some of the partisans hard to detect and tell them to move to the railroad to block it. But the AI is not always cooperative and units with the camo trait are visible for a moment when they move during the AI turn so it does not really work as it should.

Maybe I should try to add a few partisans with the camo trait to spawn directly at the railroads with no movement so that they remain invisible until a train or an anti-partisan patrol runs into them. These should appear with some randomness so that players could not benefit from remembering in game replays. Possibly I will test it in v1.9.

3) Winter
While the loss of strength points hits the prestige quite hard, it does not pose a real threat if you keep your units strong enough. The way I see it, is that on top of that, some, if not all, Axis ground units should also lose organization. That would make Russian counterattacks more meaningful. I wonder if that could be simulated.

In v1.8 it is mainly a prestige penalty only. I v1.9 I plan to add one or two more turns with the same 1 point prestige penalty and then it should cause a real problem as they would accumulate. The main aim would be to force the player to stop any advance until spring 1942, as it happened historically. If players lose 1 strength point for a couple of turns and at the same time the AI keeps attacking in bad weather, it should do the trick.

Is there a briefing for this mod? There are many questions, e.g. if sinking a convoy, will british presitge be reduced per step or only if the merchant is sunk... things like this

Greetings

There is no briefing as such, but there is a lot of info available in the in-game library and in the in-game message boxes. (I realized fairly fast that most players do not bother reading the boring "readme" and "manual" files, so it makes more sense to add as much information as possible directly to the gameplay message boxes. )As for sinking the merchant ships, the relevant in-game message box says:

"The Battle of the Atlantic continues. The naval blockade of the British Isles is essential to our final victory. The main convoy routes are marked on the map with "$". You will get 50 prestige points (up to a maximum of 200) for every Axis naval unit placed on these convoy routes. The more U-boats (and other naval vessels) you have on the convoy routes marked with the "$", the more extra prestige you will get the next turn. Although you will not get prestige for sinking enemy merchant ships, it is a good idea to sink them as if they run into a U-boat or detect it in any other way they will radio the nearby destroyers and aircraft which will move there to attack..."

So in this mod only the control of the convoy routes matters, the actual sinking of the merchant ships does not. That simulates a successful naval blockade. It is advisable to reduce the number of enemy ships though, as in that case they are less likely run into the U-boats. Best is to keep clear the area of enemy units as long as possible so that U-boats can stay there undisturbed and provide a steady flow of extra prestige. However, the Allies are expected to increase their efforts later, as it happened historically.

[Chris101075]

Thanks for clarification

[glaude1955]

Hello McGuba,

It is with great pleasure that I start once again your beautiful mod.

When did you plan to release version 1.9?

Best regards

Yves

[McGuba]

Hi,

I have finished v1.9, but currently running a test playthrough. It usually takes like 2-4 weeks, depending on now much I have to work and how nice the weather is.
(If the weather is nice I play less often... )

[Chris101075]

Hi!

One more question: Does it help me anything to start in '39? Do I have more units or prestige if I play Poland, France etc. bevor the "big deal" of 1941?

Thanks and greetings!

[P210]

Hi,

I have finished v1.9, but currently running a test playthrough. It usually takes like 2-4 weeks, depending on now much I have to work and how nice the weather is.
(If the weather is nice I play less often... )

Hi McGuba,

Can't wait. Mod is very close to the perfection. Just for fun tried to play campaign at Field Marshal level and did not go for Moscow and Leningrad until January 1943.

Now I better understand complains about too many SU units

End result a draw. Europe fully under control. Decided to abandon NA and defend Sicily, which worked, but now I do think that is a wrong strategy. One should do what ever is needed to keep Tunisia. In the East front line ended up to be from Archangels through Moscow and Kursk to Stalingrad. SU was basically done, but russian heavy armor did slow my advance. I really hate SU100

One game play notice. Minor Axis, Rumania, Finland do not have any transportation available for towed AT or Art in '45. Think they should have at least horses.

Have a nice summer (though it is very tempting to say that hopefully it rains every second day )

[McGuba]

Hi!

One more question: Does it help me anything to start in '39? Do I have more units or prestige if I play Poland, France etc. bevor the "big deal" of 1941?

Thanks and greetings!

If you are good you can start with some extra prestige (up to +500/1000), some more experience and with some luck 1-2 heroes. But the main advantage is the added knowledge of the changes introduced by this mod (unit stats, AI behaviour, encirclements, etc.).

They mainly serve like tutorials. But the main scenario can be won on its own as well.

Hi McGuba,

Can't wait. Mod is very close to the perfection. Just for fun tried to play campaign at Field Marshal level and did not go for Moscow and Leningrad until January 1943.

Now I better understand complains about too many SU units

End result a draw. Europe fully under control.

I think it is a nice achievment to get a draw on Field Marshal and with some self restrictions. I never tried to play it over "General".

One game play notice. Minor Axis, Rumania, Finland do not have any transportation available for towed AT or Art in '45. Think they should have at least horses.

Funny that I never noticed it. Will fix it.

Have a nice summer (though it is very tempting to say that hopefully it rains every second day )

Yeah, thanks, I am just about to finish my summer holiday. Hopefully I will have more time for this when I am back at work, lol.

[Chris101075]

Thanks for your patient answers! Sadly I found a game braking bug in the mod: My units always die... must be a bad design, hm? No, honestly: You made an incredible work! It's like a new game. Very cool. Hard too, no idea how to beat france in time, deceisive at least. However: Thanks for you effort, very well done, Sir!

[McGuba]

Well, yeah, this mod was made rather hard for sure and aimed at experienced and highly skilled players. However, I intend to make the next v1.9 version a bit more accessible for average and casual players with the addition two alternative "dumbed down" version of the main scenario, the easier one being also optimized for multiplayer game.

As for France: the best if you try to follow the historical path by reaching and taking Abbeville with a strong armoured spearhead, therefore encircling the rest of the Allied forces in Belgium which will then evacuate through Dunkirk. That will make the job much easier.

For more info you can read through Uhu's excellent tips and suggestions for playing the mod:
viewtopic.php?f=121&t=55486

Sorry, but now I must go back to the beach to enjoy the rest of the sunshine.

[Chris101075]

Giving it a new try, it wasn't so hard. You have to play with the engine in mind, less the historical events Doesn't change anything I said - really great work!

[P210]

Hello McGuba,

I understand that in v1.9 the air war in the west will have much higher stakes than before. Therefore - How about if players had following new fighter options,

1st, FW190 A8/R8 Sturmböcke with -3 initiative, +2AA, +2AD and slightly increased price

2nd, Bf109 G6, G10, G14 and K4 Kanonenvogel with -1 initiative for G6, -2 initiative for later models, +2AA, -1AD (less agile - slower evasive maneuvers) and slightly increased price

Just an idea.

[McGuba]

Yes, I have been thinking about this for a while, but there are some problems with its implementation. First, historically the heavily armed "Sturmbock" variants of the Fw 190 were usually given air escort just like bombers so this type should be in the tactical bomber class which would make cross-class upgrades impossible. But if they are in the tactical bomber class they would hardly differ from the already existing bomber destroyers in the mod (Bf 110G, Me 410, Ju 88G). Maybe they could have sligthly better air defense but in reality they were destroyed just as easily by the Allied escort fighters as the twin engined heavy fighters in early 1944. So for now I have just decided to slightly reduce the initiative and increase the air attack of the Fw 190A-8 (compared to the Fw-190A-5) which should include both the "normal" and the heavily armed types.
Another help will be the addition of more figthers in 1943-44 to players who have not invaded Britain and therefore has to face the full might of the Allied air power in the west. The stakes will be certainly higher in this regard, but it should be like that. The Luftwaffe was bloodied in the west in the first half of 1944, until then it enjoyed relative air superiority, at least locally, wherever it wanted.

[doctorwillow]

Hello McGuba.

One question, for pure curiosity... if you have been already asked that... sorry.

Well, after playing your BE mod, all other PzC campaigns, or scenarios, are simply second best. And as there is a PzC 2 preparing to come out in the near future, my question to you is... were you ever contacted from developers to include in new PzC something similar to your mod. Or, is there a way to say to developers (except the suggestion thread on slitherine forum): Hey, guys, this McGuba dude created awsome stuff, you should make something similar to make a lot PzC fans much more happier.

Or question for all moders: Had anyone of you ever been contacted from game designers/developers to include you/your ideas in developing new features/stuffs in the new games/releases?

Thanks, and best regards to all PzC moders and fans!

[hugh2711]

doctorwillow; I specifically asked/suggested (,while singing the praises of also,) in the new PZ2 forum about contacting the designers of the great big and VERY popular massive scenarios (including specifically naming the awesome Battlefield Europe) but the replies I got seemed to me that they have not/will not. Also since the size of the big scenarios puts a strain on the available graphics resources I also asked if they would put in a switch to turn off the 3d if wanted and given the massive silence in response (considering the amount of disquiet generated by the 3d thing) I think it is very unlikely that there will be any really big scenarios. This is of course very silly given the ENORMOUS and ENDURING popularity of the big scenarios like BFE... but then a company is obliged to put money for the shareholders first.

[doctorwillow]

huhh2721, I am verry sad to hear that. At least, I hope there will be an editor that will allow to guys like McGuba, Akkula and others to produce "next generation"of of great mods.

[doctorwillow]

hugh2711, I am verry sad to hear that. At least, I hope there will be an editor that will allow to guys like McGuba, Akkula and others to produce next generation of great mods.

[McGuba]

As hugh2721 wrote it correctly, if the coming PzC2 goes pure 3D it is very unlikely that there will be mods like this made at the same scale and magnitude. I do not know how to model and animate 3D units as it is a profession that people learn and practise for years, if I am right. What I know for sure is that I would never accept compromises, and for example substitue Romanian units near Stalingrad with Italian ones, only because "there are not enough Romanian units modeled in the game", as they did in the official GC. (In fact only a few dozen Italian soldiers were surrounded at Stalingrad, the Italian 8th Army was more than 200 km to the east, over the Romanian 3rd Army.)

Adding all the specific units to the minor nations and the missing ones to the major nations in full 3D would be a mammoth job - it has been a huge job doing so even in 2D which would not have been possible without the contribution of many other talented modders like bebro or guille and the others. I just do not see how we could realize the same in 3D. It is enough to compare the number new units made by modders for PzC and OOB...

And "something similar to my mod" would require hundreds of new additional units added to the usual selection of German, Soviet and US units which are included in the base game. My understanding is that they believe that PzC2 has to be 3D to be successful in the market, but it will certainly make modding very difficult.