Supermax-Moriss restart (Game stopped)

Diplomaticus · Post by **Diplomaticus** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:33 pm

Max, that you're able to have this kind of success with such paltry units in the Libya/Egypt theater is a testimony to your strategic and tactical skill. Moriss is very good, but you know him like a book and use that knowledge to devastating effect.

supermax · Post by **supermax** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:03 pm

Diplomaticus wrote:Max, that you're able to have this kind of success with such paltry units in the Libya/Egypt theater is a testimony to your strategic and tactical skill. Moriss is very good, but you know him like a book and use that knowledge to devastating effect.

Well thanks for the praise!

Like a book indeed. Its almost even not funny.

Like i can garantee you that moriss will be landing in normandy in the nex 2 turns.

He will continue his attacks in russia until i destroy him.

His play style is simple. Just wear down the axis... Its kinda boring in a sense... You can only rely on him to attack recklessly and wear you down.

The russians are close to 9 milions losses. The yanks are also going to have a taste of defea in france in the summer 1942. I also wonder wha kind of quality i will ge to seenwith the brits on the shores of france... Their manpower is way down for sure.

I dont know about you guys, but with all those aar we can rely for sure on moriss to always do the same ...

Peter Stauffenberg · Post by **Peter Stauffenberg** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:22 pm

Morris is facing disaster in Russia in the Spring of 1942 unless he retreats very soon. He should have learnt by now that Supermax enjoys making big encirclements. He doesn't even have a double defense line anywhere in Russia. So he can lose his entire front line unless he's careful. Then the Germans can just storm towards the victory cities.

Cybvep · Post by **Cybvep** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:45 pm

I think that it's high time he lost as the Allies

Peter Stauffenberg · Post by **Peter Stauffenberg** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:16 pm

True. Now Morris threatens that the Allies have no chance and he can crush everyone with the Axis. It's strange that a minor change to the game rule can alter the game balance from pro Allies to pro Axis ..... according to him.

I'm thinking about the not being able to set research focus until a country is at war. This indicates that the ability to set focus so you can specialize units for each country is the key to his successes.

supermax · Post by **supermax** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:15 pm

Stauffenberg wrote:True. Now Morris threatens that the Allies have no chance and he can crush everyone with the Axis. It's strange that a minor change to the game rule can alter the game balance from pro Allies to pro Axis ..... according to him. I'm thinking about the not being able to set research focus until a country is at war. This indicates that the ability to set focus so you can specialize units for each country is the key to his successes.

I'll just have to play Allies against him.

Plaid · Post by **Plaid** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:30 pm

Morris is overrated, if you ask me.
He have some strange min-max strategies, which he claim to be "inbalanced" and nothing more.
You can note in this (or any other) topic that a) his operations suffer from really poor execution b) his strategies have little or no adaptivity to what actually happens on the board

I think top tier player like Borger or Ronnie will have no special problems with Morris. But on the other side unprepared or unexperienced one will be completely smashed with massive allied troop waves in early game - starting from France Morris just gather all what he have at hand and throws at you. "Strategy" is to sound word for this approach.

Cybvep · Post by **Cybvep** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:35 pm

Well, he didn't have problems with winning as the Allies before the recent patch changes. If he did that while NOT being a player of superior skill, then the game must have been extremely unbalanced in v. 2.0.

supermax · Post by **supermax** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:42 pm

LOL this is a funny discussion.

One thing is sure he is a very cool guy and he is hard to beat. Fun to play against every turn could be a surprise.

Cant fault him for not putting up a good fight!

But i agree with Plaid on the poor execution thing. Do you guys realize that ive completly destroyed 8th army (3 INF, 1 ARM) with 4 shitty italian INF corps and 2 GAR? How could he let that happen?

In the next few turns you will see more poor execution. His strategy is massing stuff and winning the game early. Looking at his Russians right now... Sure they are going to have high tank and inf techs... As do the germans. And then what? What happens in 1944 and 1945?

That landing of his in early 1942 is going to be smashed... And if i am any lucky so will be his Russians.

supermax · Post by **supermax** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:27 pm

peterjfrigate · Post by **peterjfrigate** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:32 pm

I'm concerned too many changes are being made based on a single game that is still in progress. Banning an allied presence in Russia might have been quite enough to balance things. Supermax doesn't look like he needs much more help with rule adjustments, and I'll be surprised if Morris continues the game much past 1943.

True, his Axis early-"Overload" strategy could be executed more carefully, but what would the likely outcome be? Probably the 8th army would be alive but stuck at Tobruk. I don't think the 41 landings in France could have succeeded, so those forces could be alive in UK. His fleets could be stronger. But how do you execute "Overload" without a big Russian winter offensive that is doomed to fail if the Axis player takes reasonable steps like Supermax did? Overload is a big gamble - it requires the sacrifice air tech, DDs, Strats and manpower from the get-go. In short the 41 winter offensive can't succeed if the axis player is prepared for it, and the Allies will lose in the long run. To me this sounds like the game is already balanced. There's another factor here that doesn't obviously favor the allies - if they conserve their forces by not playing recklessly then there's a corresponding drop in the early pressure Overload depends on.

supermax wrote:
Stauffenberg wrote:True. Now Morris threatens that the Allies have no chance and he can crush everyone with the Axis. It's strange that a minor change to the game rule can alter the game balance from pro Allies to pro Axis ..... according to him. I'm thinking about the not being able to set research focus until a country is at war. This indicates that the ability to set focus so you can specialize units for each country is the key to his successes.
I'll just have to play Allies against him.

Cybvep · Post by **Cybvep** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:45 pm

It's done, then. You survived Moriss southern gambit. Your MP situation is worrying, but besides that, you seem to be doing fine.

Peter Stauffenberg · Post by **Peter Stauffenberg** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:42 am

The latest changes won't affect normal players much.

Normal players don't min/max with research and therefore they won't be harmed by not being able to put focus until the country is at war.

The Siberian reserve arriving one turn later means it will still be able to fight when severe winter hits. The attack strength across the river in winter won't affect the Russian winter offensive that begun when the severe winter begun. It will only affect the turn before and after the severe winter begins/ends. The western Allies will notice the effect a bit, but there aren't many winter turns in western Europe.

Replacing Chuikov with Meretskov is a minor change. The Siberians reserves arrive with the same efficienc as before. All you don't have is an tank army with +1 to attack and +1 to defense that Chuikov provided. This leader can still be purchased by the Russians.

Let's see how playtesting will show how things will go in "normal" games.

supermax · Post by **supermax** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:26 pm

Peter Stauffenberg · Post by **Peter Stauffenberg** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:50 pm

If Morris fails his landing in France then I can't see how he can win this game. Morris is going to regret that he has neglected tech upgrades.

It's fine to ignore techs if you expect to win by 1943, but if you have to fight to 1945 you will lose if you don't invest in tech.

So it seems Morris might have found his match in you.

Morris wants to play the Axis from now on. I hope you take the opportunity to challenge him into a game where you're the Allies. If you can beat him with the Allies as well then nobody can claim the game is not balanced at all.

supermax · Post by **supermax** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:01 pm

Stauffenberg wrote:If Morris fails his landing in France then I can't see how he can win this game. Morris is going to regret that he has neglected tech upgrades.

It's fine to ignore techs if you expect to win by 1943, but if you have to fight to 1945 you will lose if you don't invest in tech.

So it seems Morris might have found his match in you. Morris wants to play the Axis from now on. I hope you take the opportunity to challenge him into a game where you're the Allies. If you can beat him with the Allies as well then nobody can claim the game is not balanced at all.

We will see but i dont see how he can succeed in the landing. It will last a couple of turns yes, but there is no way i wont be able to muster enough troops to throw him back, especially since worst-case scenario i stay defensive on the eastern front.

I will definitly challenge him as the alllies and i have quite an idea on ohw he thinks the game is not balanced.

Simply said: HE will knock France then totally disreguard England and build a monster tank-mech force with super high tech. He will be launching the army straight into Russia and hope for the best to overwhelm the Reds. It should not be easy, but i can counter that.

If anyone watched this aAR, now its possible to see that Moriss works like a pre-determined plan every time

I can read him because i myself like game exploits and am quite good at finding some. So its easy to put myself into his shoes.

Cybvep · Post by **Cybvep** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:01 pm

Just make sure to make an AAR out of it

Peter Stauffenberg · Post by **Peter Stauffenberg** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:25 pm

Will you upgrade to GS v2.01.32 for the next game against him? It would be nice to get tested the map changes and also the other changes we made in GS v2.01.31 and GS v2.01.32.

Blathergut · Post by **Blathergut** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:28 pm

Am curious to see if the new Pskov Tank Tunnel affects the moves on Leningrad and such!

Supermax-Moriss restart (Game stopped)

Turn 47. Winter is nearing its end, and the Axis isnt broken