H.Balck's AFRICA CORPS

HBalck · Post by **HBalck** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:37 am

It take much longer - in my normandy scenario (250x250) the AI need 5 minutes for 400 units.

In North Africa you have not so mutch units on the beginning - but at El Alamein the british army had over 230000 men - I have over 600 units include.

H.Balck

Molve · Post by **Molve** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:59 am

I suggest you scale back your efforts to match the limitations of the game engine.

No matter how beautiful the map or how meticulously researched the OOBs, if the game crashes or takes several minutes to complete turns, then something is wrong.

You should realize units aren't tied to fixed scale in Panzer Corps and Panzer General like games. Whether the armies contain a thousand troops or a million, maps of about 30-40 hexes a side and up to a hundred units works best. All scenarios should be scaled to meet these ranges, to ensure the player will get a great play experience.

Remember - good scenario designers work with the game limitations. I wish you the best of luck!

HBalck · Post by **HBalck** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:28 am

Yes - but for Multiplayer games we need bigger maps - thats an other community I known - not the low level players - but we are more than 100 players like big maps an play historical scenarios.

H.Balck

DJ88 · Post by **DJ88** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:16 am

Molve wrote:I suggest you scale back your efforts to match the limitations of the game engine.

No matter how beautiful the map or how meticulously researched the OOBs, if the game crashes or takes several minutes to complete turns, then something is wrong.

You should realize units aren't tied to fixed scale in Panzer Corps and Panzer General like games. Whether the armies contain a thousand troops or a million, maps of about 30-40 hexes a side and up to a hundred units works best. All scenarios should be scaled to meet these ranges, to ensure the player will get a great play experience.

Remember - good scenario designers work with the game limitations. I wish you the best of luck!

What do you mean? Is the game not designed to be scalable...as there gets to be too many units/scenarios it will start slowing down or crash?

El_Condoro · Post by **El_Condoro** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:24 am

HBalck's post above says his 250x250 hex, 400 unit map takes 5 minutes to play a turn.

I think it's only natural that the game will slow down with that kind of load. Yes, it is meant to be scaled but there is a limit to everything.

My biggest problem with that kind of scale is the amount of scrolling around the map that would be needed.

VPaulus · Post by **VPaulus** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:26 am

Dylan wrote:What do you mean? Is the game not designed to be scalable...as there gets to be too many units/scenarios it will start slowing down or crash?

El_Condoro wrote:I think it's only natural that the game will slow down with that kind of load. Yes, it is meant to be scaled but there is a limit to everything.

This. The game was made to be played with smaller maps and less units.
It's scalable, but like with any other game, when you force the engine, it will have to be slower.
Panzer Corps pedigree is Panzer General. It's a beer and pretzels wargame.
You can play this large maps, only there will be paybacks.

Razz1 · Post by **Razz1** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:22 pm

Can you explain your changes to the equipment file and unit sizes?

I see changes in power in the equipment file as you perceive it and once again the unit sizes are changed based upon the number of, tanks, guns or men in a unit.

I see Armored cars at 20, some tanks as 15, others 10 or less. Infantry at 18. Some Artillery 8 maximum, others 10.

This effectively skews the game and makes it something completely different.

You know for each strength point you roll a die right?

So an AC rolls twice as many dice as a tank. You know that if a unit is suppressed it doesn't fire back, right?

I see British bombers attacking ground units with odds of -3 to -1

I see British Fighters attacking ground units with odds of -4 to -1

The changes are so extreme that, that it makes it a different game.

All of this needs to be documented so a player knows what they are getting into.

Is it not better to leave the equipment file alone?

Is it not better to only make changes to movement range, sight range and leave the balance as is?

HBalck · Post by **HBalck** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:52 pm

I see British bombers attacking ground units with odds of -3 to -1
I see British Fighters attacking ground units with odds of -4 to -1

Thats all the old PC parameters !!!

Also I use historical company strenght - an PzIII company had 15 tanks and Crusader II 20 and Sherman 16 and an Grant 17 !
The Marmon Herringtons 18 - PSW more than 20 - I can set only 20 etc.
The MG Infantry had 180 men (18 ) the Australian Infantry Companys only 100 men (10) !
The most german Artillery had 12 guns in one batallion - the british Royal art Rgt normally 24 - but I splited this in 3x8 or 2x8 gun units to show the british Artillery with more quantity.

Note - all parameters are the same like PC only the tank volume and the moving capazity is modified to 200% - tank volume for aircraft to 400%.

In the beginning DAK Campaign the most units of the 5th light division had not the full strenght - I will set some tank companys to 5-10 - than you can reinforce the units in the 1st or 2nd scenario, also the Artillery had only 8 guns, the 8.8 only one battery with 4 etc.

H.Balck

Razz1 · Post by **Razz1** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:59 pm

Unit size effects the number of dice rolled hence combat.

Only testing will show the true results.

Razz1 · Post by **Razz1** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:51 pm

5 hex visibility is too long. Might as well play with FOG off.

HBalck · Post by **HBalck** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:06 pm

5 hex visibility is too long. Might as well play with FOG off.

No - you have no experience with big maps - believe me I played years JTCS and HPS Simulation - we need 5 km sight for all.

H.Balck

El_Condoro · Post by **El_Condoro** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:52 pm

The last few posts seem to indicate that this mod is in testing phase. I suggest, since it's up to 10 pages now, that new threads be started for aspects of testing.

Erik2 · Post by **Erik2** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:16 pm

Razz1 wrote:Can you explain your changes to the equipment file and unit sizes?
......

The changes are so extreme that, that it makes it a different game.

All of this needs to be documented so a player knows what they are getting into.

Is it not better to leave the equipment file alone?

Is it not better to only make changes to movement range, sight range and leave the balance as is?

I have thoroughly tested my Market Garden scenario (played it about 30 times with numerous changes).
This is a 60x120 map with 329 German and 174 Allied units.
Most air units are overstrength between 15-20 points (5 pts for each squadron in the unit).
Air units have double movement and artillery double ranges.

The scenario AI plays reasonably fast and there appears to be no map problem relating to calculating available movement ranges for the air units.

So it is possible to strech the engine quite a bit.

HBalck · Post by **HBalck** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:55 pm

15 new water tiles finished.

Now I need only the 3D pads for the coast tiles from Massi and it looks much better !

H.Balck

Xitax · Post by **Xitax** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:06 pm

Did you model in the bird strikes?

.

In all seriousness excellent work with the art assets. I'll be sure to give it a run when it gets released. I do have some reservations about the changes to game balance, though, but I'll reserve my opinion until I give it a go.

HBalck · Post by **HBalck** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:51 am

Only 10 units to produce - than I have all units for the first 6 scenarios.

2 pounder

El_Condoro · Post by **El_Condoro** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:55 am

There is avian and marine life over and in them there waters! Is that a seaplane taking off/landing in the east?

I seem to recall you saying you wanted to do something with the coastline. I think that would be a good improvement - it needs to look more like beaches/cliffs/rocks etc.

HBalck · Post by **HBalck** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:15 am

I seem to recall you saying you wanted to do something with the coastline. I think that would be a good improvement - it needs to look more like beaches/cliffs/rocks etc.

Yes - but its hard - Massi produce all tile sets new in 3D for my poser setups. Than I can work out 3-4 different coast line blocks. Is would be easy - if the PC designer can give me his tile templates !

H.Balck

DJ88 · Post by **DJ88** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:51 am

HBalck wrote:
I seem to recall you saying you wanted to do something with the coastline. I think that would be a good improvement - it needs to look more like beaches/cliffs/rocks etc.
Yes - but its hard - Massi produce all tile sets new in 3D for my poser setups. Than I can work out 3-4 different coast line blocks. Is would be easy - if the PC designer can give me his tile templates !

H.Balck

Yeah the water and coastlines must be the one of the hardest graphics. Maybe keep it simple in darker colour - it should be good contrast with bright desert.

Great job on the 2 pounder British gun crew graphics...exceptional quality.

HBalck · Post by **HBalck** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:21 am

2 pounder Portee