New Difficulty Level for Grand Campaign

[goose_2]

Quick Update finished Zolotonosha...no problem...

The Bigger play was the awesome job I did busting through Vyazma this weekend...I tried playing mp and got some rounds in but mp is being wonky...

My Vyazma play was brilliant if I do say so myself. Setting myself up for the bigger-scarier battle of Streets of Moscow...I will try to spend this week typing up my aar's and gearing up for Streets of Moscow...any thoughts on the units I should bring are up for debate...

1st SE Pz3H with +1 Movement; Heinz Rondorf in Flamm; Albert Kerscher with +1 Movement 2nd Hero
+2 Movement 88;
1st and 2nd Recon
Oleh Dir; Helmut Weirnsberger; +1 Movement Gebirsjaeger

+1 Movement Pz4F
+ 2 def Gebirsjager

2nd, 3rd , and 4th SE Pz's; KV-1B
+3 Att Gebirsjaeger, Reg Inf, Fallschimjaeger last 2 units with trucks. (Should I change Reg inf to Grenadier?)
+3 Def 88
9 artys

In the air: All 3 Fighters; 1 Henkel; 2 Ju-87R's, and Bf-110G

Watching a lot of peoples tackling of this map as want to be fully prepared for what comes.

My thinking is to swing left and right to push through leaving the center for some kind of massive force breaking through with all extra units awarded to garner victory.

[goose_2]

Quick Update:
I am halfway through Streets of Moscow as had time to get started and I finally saw the best way to take on the map to minimize losses. I am following Idlecleese's playthrough on youtube which is supremely under utilized as a great source on how to play maps.

He plays on Rommel and his playthrough for Streets was to take everything as an unstoppable spearhead East and push North in a circle going upwards where the center does not get accosted until around turn 15.

I am at the start of Round 12, and am pretty certain I will be able to garner the needed Decisive Victory, I am unsure that I will be able to get the T-34/40 bonus unit, but going to get the KV-1B in 1 or 2 more rounds.

I am hoping to get some time this weekend to complete and may even plug through Demyansk as I have Monday off.

I have taken some damage on various units but as of yet have only purchased 4 regular replacements for +2 Def 3rd SE Pz3H.

The interesting thing is that since they have 3 extra strength they often can be lured out of their Defensive positions into vulnerable traps where they attack what appears to be a vulnerable unit guarded by unseen arty's that help decimate their attacks and makes countering their attempted assault rather easy.

Not always a disadvantage playing at this level.

[goose_2]

Quick Update:
Did it...I have the day off, but still taking time to report success on Streets of Moscow and now Demyansk which I just finished this morning.

I finished 1941 with 7360 in prestige, I was hoping for more, but I will take that amount to start 1942 with.

Now everything will be at 4 extra Strength points, but at least I have a very limited amount of units at 3 Stars experience.

Will I get any units to 4 stars by the end of 1942? I doubt it. The goal will be to get as many to 3 stars as I can or at least double heroes and 2 stars.

Stalingrad will be brutal

[captainjack]

I'm impressed and surprised that you made it this far - it's fascinating reading.

I was wondering if you still have that Panzer 1b so you can try for Lone Wolf achievement in Tatsinskaya?

[goose_2]

I'm impressed and surprised that you made it this far - it's fascinating reading.

I was wondering if you still have that Panzer 1b so you can try for Lone Wolf achievement in Tatsinskaya?

Nice one Captain, based on your question I decided to first type up my Army importing into 1942 with questions:

Super Hard Army importing into 1942
I have Bolded and Super Sized the questions below
51 units total (I had 80 in Manstein and 67 in Field Marshall)
7890 in prestige (This is a lot, lot less than what I had on any other playthrough and something I am realizing will be a huge hindrance going into the latter years, my hope now as to end 42 with at least 15k, but may have to settle with 10k.)


9 Infantry: 9 Heroes
(My plan building them up in 42 is to get all of them besides Helmut Wirnsberger and +1 Att Gebirsjaeger to 3 stars experience and/or 2 heroes by the time I hit Stalingrad, I would still like a Kradschutzen, but am still waiting for a possible +1 Spotting 2nd Hero, thoughts?)
2 Regular Inf’s both with 2 stars experience and with +3 Att heroes.
(Still waiting on 2nd heroes for these 2 to make possible upgrades.)

2 Fallschimjaeger with 2 stars both with 2 Stars 1 with +3 Att and Oleh Dir.

5 Gerbisjager’s
2 with 1 Stars experience Helmut Wirnsberger and +1 Att Hero
3 with 2 Stars 1 with +1 Movement, 1 with +2 Def, other with +3 Att Hero.
Plan for Infantry in 1942 is to build them up to 3 Stars and/or 2 Heroes, once 1 or the other happens will save those units for Stalingrad, if they all achieve at least one of those factors will build for both achievements.


12 Tanks 12 Heroes
1 Pz1B with 2 stars of experience and +2 Att Hero
(Still trying for 3rd Star on this one as mop up unit, it is extremely hard building up experience on my tanks this go around, is there anyone who understands the mechanics of how experience is awarded, as some unit classes seem extremely easy to build up experience, while others are extremely hard?)
2 Pz4F’s including 2 Star Albert Kerscher/+1 Movement 2nd Hero and 2 Starred +1 Movement.
1st SE Pz3J/1 2 Star +1 Movement/+1 Initiative 2nd Hero
2nd SE Pz3J/1 2 Star +2 Def
3rd SE Pz3H 1 Star +2 Def (I am leaving this as an H until I get him to 2 stars.)
4th SE Pz4F 1 Star +1 Movement (Thankful to have a t least one Pz4 as an SE unit)
1 Star +2 Def Somua S35 (Not using, just keeping in case I get desperate)
2 Star Flamm Heinz Rondorf. (Love that burn)
T-34/41 awarded in Demyansk and selling off.
2 KV-1B’s 1 with 0 Stars and the other with 1 Star and +1 Movement hero.
(I plan on using only these 2 tanks as build up possible tanks to use, but everything else I am awarded I plan on selling.)

2 Recon 2 Heroes
Both with 3 Stars of experience and 1 with +2 Att hero and other with +3 Att hero…ok than.

3 AT’s 1 Hero
1 5cm Pak with 2 stars of experience. (Only using sparingly and upgrading to a 7.5cm PaK to help keep forces below soft cap and still have a n effective, if not slow moving Anti-Tank option)
2 Panzerjaeger’s both with 2 stars. (I used these enough to get +1 Movement and 2 stars on both, and will be starting 1942 with green StuG3F.)

10 artys (8 Heroes)
2 3 Star 10.5cm arty 1 with +1 Att that is used sparingly, 1 with +1 Range that I still haven’t decided on an upgrade for.
(Thoughts?)
2 +2 Att 3 star 17cm Arty. (These 2 guns are my big dogs used in every battle. They help suppress and will get 2nd hero, possibly 3rd by 45)
2 2 Star Sturmpanzer’s 1 with +2 Att
2 3 Star StuG3B’s 1 with +2 Def and the other with +3 Def (Love these guys and their aggressive posture thanks to their Defensive capabilities)
2 15cm Nebelwerfer’s 1 with 2 Stars that is waiting for an upgrade based on the 1st hero, if he gets a +? Defensive Hero I may consider upgrading him to a Wurfrahmen as it would be in tree upgrade. Thoughts? The Other is a 3 Star +3 Attack Powerhouse that is getting a 20 cm Upgrade and going to be my soft boy shredder.

3 AA’s 3 Heroes
1 8.8cm FlaK +3 Defensive bad boy 2 Stars
1 8.8cm +2 Movement 3 Stars (These are so awesome, I will be using all throughout this entire Campaign only sidelining once and a great while)
1 8 movement Mobile AA that has 0 stars and have only used 2 maybe 3 times. (Very difficult to build up)

5 Fighters (5 Heroes)
All of them Bf-109F’s
1 12 Str Heinrich Bar with 3 Stars
1 Star Otto Kittel
3 Star +3 Def
2 Star +1 Spotting
3 Star +2 Att

5 Tac Bombers 5 Heroes
1 Recon Rudel with 1 star just saving until I get desperate.
1 +5 Att 3 star’s JU-87D
1 2 Star JU-87D Uber Rudel
Helmut Lent Bf-110F 3 Stars.
1 Bf-110D with 3 stars and +3 Att Hero

2 Strat Bombers
2 Henkels both with 3 Stars. 1 with +1 Att hero

Let me know about my questions.

I did 1941 with all Decisive’s which felt great, so I will be attempting the same on every scenario in this playthrough as well. Not sure what I will do in 1943 as that will essentially be a replay of my Manstein in which I was unable to get a Decisive on that one map, Ponyri. Yikes!

(This was my goal below into 1941)
I am hoping to be able to garner 12 to 15k in prestige by the end of 1941 and have most units with either 2 heroes or 3 stars of experience.
(Funny thing is now it is the same goal in 1942 as I did not finish 1941 as expected in terms of prestige or experience build up)
I will keep trying both paths and keep the one which garners either the most prestige or the better heroes.
Please share thoughts on my questions.

[PeteMitchell]

I'm impressed and surprised that you made it this far - it's fascinating reading.

I was wondering if you still have that Panzer 1b so you can try for Lone Wolf achievement in Tatsinskaya?

12 Tanks 12 Heroes
1 Pz1B with 2 stars of experience and +2 Att Hero
(Still trying for 3rd Star on this one as mop up unit, it is extremely hard building up experience on my tanks this go around, is there anyone who understands the mechanics of how experience is awarded, as some unit classes seem extremely easy to build up experience, while others are extremely hard?)

My guess: it's because of (fully) suppressed targets (to avoid casualties) and a small delta between the values of attackers vs. targets which reduces experience gain... here is an interesting link as well: viewtopic.php?t=48886

[ThvN]

Rudankort has posted the formula before, I'll quote it here and give the link, it's very informative.

Exact formulas to calculate experience are a bit involved, but if anyone wants to know what exactly is going on, here goes...

A combat round involves one unit (Attacker) shooting at another unit (Defender). Typical combat has two separate rounds, more if there is defensive fire involved. Experience is calculated in each round separately.

In each combat round, the Defender gets experience bonus equal to two times its losses. So for example, a unit which lost 5 points of strength gains 10 exp.

Attacker case is where things get complicated. I'll show the formulas first:

Code: Select all

DefBonus = max(1, DefenderAttack + 6 - AttackerDefense) * DefenderUnsuppressedStrength / 10

AttBonus = max(1, DefenderDefense + 6 - AttackerAttack)

Exp = min(15, max(1, AttBonus + DefBonus)) * (SuppressingAttack ? Hits : Kills)

As we can see, there are two factors. DefBonus determines how dangerous out opponent is (i. e. how much damage it can inflict with return fire). AttBonus shows how difficult the opponent is to penetrate. The sum of these two factors, which is normalized to remain in [1,15] range, is how much exp we gain for each point of strength killed. Suppressing units like artillery are a special case: they use hits instead of kills. Also, for artillery DefBonus is always zero, because it is not subject to return fire.

After we have calculated "raw" experience, it is reduced depending on how much experience a unit already has. Exp growth rate is configured in gamerules.pzdat file. Difficulty levels and experience caps configured in the scenario also affect how much we gain.

These formulas are used for all units, not only air.

http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 79#p606706

The experience growth rates are shown below, directly copied from the game files:

Code: Select all

ExpGrowRate0	100
ExpGrowRate1	50
ExpGrowRate2	25
ExpGrowRate3	12
ExpGrowRate4	6
ExpGrowRate5	3

I think these are percentages, so a unit with 2 stars will only be awarded 25% of the prestige a 'green', 0-star unit would get for the same combat result.


To add, the amount of kills needed for a hero during the Grand Campaign:

Code: Select all

Hero1KillsMin	100
Hero1KillsMax	300

Hero2KillsMin	301
Hero2KillsMax	1000

Hero3KillsMin	1001
Hero3KillsMax	2000

These numbers are min-max ranges of number of kills needed to obtain a hero. So if a unit has 100 kills, it might gain its first hero, but it could also need 300 kills to get it.


And the amount of kills needed during the Vanilla campaign, Afrika Korps, Allied Corps and Soviet Corps. The numbers are much lower because there are far less scenarios to play.

Code: Select all

Hero1KillsMin	50
Hero1KillsMax	100

Hero2KillsMin	101
Hero2KillsMax	200

Hero3KillsMin	201
Hero3KillsMax	500

In my opinion, the hardest class to gain experience and heroes for are AAA units without a switch mode. Artillery and Level Bombers gain experience very quickly, but struggle to get heroes.

[goose_2]

Rudankort has posted the formula before, I'll quote it here and give the link, it's very informative.

Exact formulas to calculate experience are a bit involved, but if anyone wants to know what exactly is going on, here goes...

A combat round involves one unit (Attacker) shooting at another unit (Defender). Typical combat has two separate rounds, more if there is defensive fire involved. Experience is calculated in each round separately.

In each combat round, the Defender gets experience bonus equal to two times its losses. So for example, a unit which lost 5 points of strength gains 10 exp.

Attacker case is where things get complicated. I'll show the formulas first:

Code: Select all

DefBonus = max(1, DefenderAttack + 6 - AttackerDefense) * DefenderUnsuppressedStrength / 10

AttBonus = max(1, DefenderDefense + 6 - AttackerAttack)

Exp = min(15, max(1, AttBonus + DefBonus)) * (SuppressingAttack ? Hits : Kills)

As we can see, there are two factors. DefBonus determines how dangerous out opponent is (i. e. how much damage it can inflict with return fire). AttBonus shows how difficult the opponent is to penetrate. The sum of these two factors, which is normalized to remain in [1,15] range, is how much exp we gain for each point of strength killed. Suppressing units like artillery are a special case: they use hits instead of kills. Also, for artillery DefBonus is always zero, because it is not subject to return fire.

After we have calculated "raw" experience, it is reduced depending on how much experience a unit already has. Exp growth rate is configured in gamerules.pzdat file. Difficulty levels and experience caps configured in the scenario also affect how much we gain.

These formulas are used for all units, not only air.

viewtopic.php?f=147&t=72079&p=606479#p606706

The experience growth rates are shown below, directly copied from the game files:

Code: Select all

ExpGrowRate0	100
ExpGrowRate1	50
ExpGrowRate2	25
ExpGrowRate3	12
ExpGrowRate4	6
ExpGrowRate5	3

I think these are percentages, so a unit with 2 stars will only be awarded 25% of the prestige a 'green', 0-star unit would get for the same combat result.


To add, the amount of kills needed for a hero during the Grand Campaign:

Code: Select all

Hero1KillsMin	100
Hero1KillsMax	300

Hero2KillsMin	301
Hero2KillsMax	1000

Hero3KillsMin	1001
Hero3KillsMax	2000

These numbers are min-max ranges of number of kills needed to obtain a hero. So if a unit has 100 kills, it might gain its first hero, but it could also need 300 kills to get it.


And the amount of kills needed during the Vanilla campaign, Afrika Korps, Allied Corps and Soviet Corps. The numbers are much lower because there are far less scenarios to play.

Code: Select all

Hero1KillsMin	50
Hero1KillsMax	100

Hero2KillsMin	101
Hero2KillsMax	200

Hero3KillsMin	201
Hero3KillsMax	500

In my opinion, the hardest class to gain experience and heroes for are AAA units without a switch mode. Artillery and Level Bombers gain experience very quickly, but struggle to get heroes.

Sweet I just posted a ? and here is the answer
Love this forum...

[hurly]

Super Hard Army importing into 1942
I have Bolded and Super Sized the questions below



9 Infantry: 9 Heroes
(My plan building them up in 42 is to get all of them besides Helmut Wirnsberger and +1 Att Gebirsjaeger to 3 stars experience and/or 2 heroes by the time I hit Stalingrad, I would still like a Kradschutzen, but am still waiting for a possible +1 Spotting 2nd Hero, thoughts?)
2 Regular Inf’s both with 2 stars experience and with +3 Att heroes.
(Still waiting on 2nd heroes for these 2 to make possible upgrades.)

2 Fallschimjaeger with 2 stars both with 2 Stars 1 with +3 Att and Oleh Dir.

5 Gerbisjager’s
2 with 1 Stars experience Helmut Wirnsberger and +1 Att Hero
3 with 2 Stars 1 with +1 Movement, 1 with +2 Def, other with +3 Att Hero.
Plan for Infantry in 1942 is to build them up to 3 Stars and/or 2 Heroes, once 1 or the other happens will save those units for Stalingrad, if they all achieve at least one of those factors will build for both achievements.

The Smartass in me always cringes when you type Gebirsjaeger or Gerbisjaeger. It's a recurring thing so I don't think it's just a typo

but now that you bolded it I just can't hold it anymore and want to make my not so bold move

The Word is Gebirgsjäger here the English Wikipedia Link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gebirgsj%C3%A4ger

as in Gebirge the German Word for Mountains Gebirs or Gerbis is not a word let alone one that fits the Topic

a Gebirgsjäger is a Mountain Hunter and a type of Infantry that excels in difficult terrain especially mountains

Sorry to be a wisecracker here, which is not very polite nor politically correct

But at least we should get our kills in military correct terms Killing is a profession that should be performed with all due respect

I'm sure your Gebirgsjäger (which is also the Plural of the Word Gebirgsjäger-- it is the same word for 1 Jäger as well as 300 Jäger, yeah I know the German language is not very easy to master with all these illogical things ) will garner a lot more experience and prestige once their leader addresses them with the correct military term

[goose_2]

Super Hard Army importing into 1942
I have Bolded and Super Sized the questions below



9 Infantry: 9 Heroes
(My plan building them up in 42 is to get all of them besides Helmut Wirnsberger and +1 Att Gebirsjaeger to 3 stars experience and/or 2 heroes by the time I hit Stalingrad, I would still like a Kradschutzen, but am still waiting for a possible +1 Spotting 2nd Hero, thoughts?)
2 Regular Inf’s both with 2 stars experience and with +3 Att heroes.
(Still waiting on 2nd heroes for these 2 to make possible upgrades.)

2 Fallschimjaeger with 2 stars both with 2 Stars 1 with +3 Att and Oleh Dir.

5 Gerbisjager’s
2 with 1 Stars experience Helmut Wirnsberger and +1 Att Hero
3 with 2 Stars 1 with +1 Movement, 1 with +2 Def, other with +3 Att Hero.
Plan for Infantry in 1942 is to build them up to 3 Stars and/or 2 Heroes, once 1 or the other happens will save those units for Stalingrad, if they all achieve at least one of those factors will build for both achievements.

The Smartass in me always cringes when you type Gebirsjaeger or Gerbisjaeger. It's a recurring thing so I don't think it's just a typo

but now that you bolded it I just can't hold it anymore and want to make my not so bold move

The Word is Gebirgsjäger here the English Wikipedia Link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gebirgsj%C3%A4ger

as in Gebirge the German Word for Mountains Gebirs or Gerbis is not a word let alone one that fits the Topic

a Gebirgsjäger is a Mountain Hunter and a type of Infantry that excels in difficult terrain especially mountains

Sorry to be a wisecracker here, which is not very polite nor politically correct

But at least we should get our kills in military correct terms Killing is a profession that should be performed with all due respect

I'm sure your Gebirgsjäger (which is also the Plural of the Word Gebirgsjäger-- it is the same word for 1 Jäger as well as 300 Jäger, yeah I know the German language is not very easy to master with all these illogical things ) will garner a lot more experience and prestige once their leader addresses them with the correct military term

Thanks for the 2nd correction on this I have copied the word you are using as I do not have those 2 dotted a's on my typewriter in order to just easily type it. I meant no disrespect, juts bad habits that are hard to break...

By the By I have been trying Vitebsk but am having a lot of difficulty with teh upgrade in difficulty. 4 extra strength is very hard to deal with, but I am attempting to plow through it by feigning back and attacking at more opportune time, but 14 str 122 mm arty's are extremely difficult for my soft units to stand against, and when they come at you 2 at a time, you have to be extremely careful...I will be able to do this just a bit of a puzzle that will take some time to crack.

[shawkhan2]

Since overstrength is the standard ploy for countering Manstein level forces, you do seem to be in a quandary w/o adequate prestige and experience to do so. I believe I once predicted that getting past 1942 would be extremely difficult with this option. Hope you can prove me wrong.


Just a coincidence. Noticed that Hurly and I have the exact same number of posts. What are the odds?

[PeteMitchell]

Thanks for the 2nd correction on this I have copied the word you are using as I do not have those 2 dotted a's on my typewriter in order to just easily type it. I meant no disrespect, juts bad habits that are hard to break...

This level of detail is amazing...

Actually, you can use ae for ä (same with oe for ö and ue for ü) if you don't have access to the Umlaut: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/4496 ... -or-%C3%9F

The Umlaute are relevant for pronunciation in German (often for plurals but not only), e.g. Hand --> Hände (= hand --> hands)
To give some simplified context: at some point in time people wrote a small e on top of either a, o or u instead of behind (maybe they got lazy? ... well, the real reasons for the need of an "e" somewhere were changes in pronunciation) and then the small e on top of the Umlaute just became the two dots over time...

If you look at some old historic German texts, you can still find them, e.g. this fairly known guy here was still using the Umlaut (the "oe") in his family name at the time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Wo ... von_Goethe

Here is an example, if you look closely at the second word "König" (= king), you can recognize a small e on top of the o.


However, I think you were actually missing the "g" in Gebirgsjäger or Gebirgsjaeger...

[hurly]

Thanks for the 2nd correction on this I have copied the word you are using as I do not have those 2 dotted a's on my typewriter in order to just easily type it. I meant no disrespect, juts bad habits that are hard to break...

This level of detail is amazing...

Actually, you can use ae for ä (same with oe for ö and ue for ü) if you don't have access to the Umlaut: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/4496 ... -or-%C3%9F

The Umlaute are relevant for pronunciation in German (often for plurals but not only), e.g. Hand --> Hände (= hand --> hands)
To give some simplified context: at some point in time people wrote a small e on top of either a, o or u instead of behind (maybe they got lazy? ... well, the real reasons for the need of an "e" somewhere were changes in pronunciation) and then the small e on top of the Umlaute just became the two dots over time...

If you look at some old historic German texts, you can still find them, e.g. this fairly known guy here was still using the Umlaut (the "oe") in his family name at the time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Wo ... von_Goethe

Here is an example, if you look closely at the second word "König" (= king), you can recognize a small e on top of the o.


However, I think you were actually missing the "g" in Gebirgsjäger or Gebirgsjaeger...

correct Pete

it was all about the g in Gebirge

the Umlaut (we have the vocals ä,ü,ö as Umlaut but there is no Umlaut for e or i) is actually a dying breed in the times of Computers, emails, Internet and whatnot.

by the way the Umlaut sounds different than the normal vocal

the word Jäger sounds like Jay-ger
while the word jagen (to hunt) sounds jah-(as in yahoo)-gen
in terms of PC Units it is Brummbär Broom-bear while the Panther sounds like Punter

the word hoch (high) is like holy ho hhh
while the word höher (hgher) is like turn hö her

the same for Küche (kitchen) sounds like the y in krypton ky-shae
while the word Kuchen (cake) sounds like cool ku hhen

or Bach (creek) like task ba hhh
while the plural Bäche (creeks) sounds like bash bash-eh

So the use of ae, ue or oe is actually accepted for most words but not for names

Actually I have an ä in my surname and while I can (or need to) use the ae in an email address cause almost nobody with a non German Keyboard would be able to send me a mail otherwise.But I can not sign a document with the ae in my signature. Official Documents like ID Card, Passport, Drivers License are all with the still official ä Umlaut in it.

I think a similar approach is used for scandanavian extra signs (the Czechs have some Extra signs as well) but don't ask me how they exactly sound

Swedisch Umlaute
å
or the Danish (Press alt key + Number on the Numeric Keys only)
ø= Alt + 155
æ = Alt + 145
å = Alt + 134
Å = Alt + 143
Æ = Alt + 146
Ø = Alt + 157


relating to your historical sheet you can see how the German language is evolving all the time

The Phonetics would be the same but
the word verlohren is spelled verloren nowadays and your German teacher would give you a thumbs down if use the h in a spelling contest
almost the same with October which is spelled Oktober (although I think the teacher would let it slide as an anglicism)

so much for useless knowledge that does not make the world a better place

[goose_2]

Ah now the Writing lesson is over I have some questions after finishing Vitebsk this morning...Kharkov 42 with 7908 in prestige...I will be selling T-34/41...but...here are my questions:

1) I was awarded an SE Tank at the start of Kharkov. Yay! But it was SE Pz3F, like the worst one I could have been awarded. So sell? Or upgrade to Pz3J/1, and start building up?
The reason I ask is because I was hoping for a SE Pz4, based on the greater upgrade path and I already have 3 Pz3's, but at the same time at this level any units would help and I need to start building up now in order to get stars of experience and kills.

2) Ok so am I savescumming?...love that word as I had never heard it before. I needed to replay certain days over and over to set up my forces the right way based on the oncoming Counter attack that was just pulverizing my units at this very difficult level. (Even so I still got some units seriously damaged in Vitebsk.) Maybe shawkhan2 was right and this will all fall apart in 42. So this is something I started in Manstein and documented those days that I did, but I am recognizing that I am doing it a lot more now that 42 has hit.


3) So I have been thinking about my AA units as I have 2 really good 88's, that I will be building up for the remainder of the game, but would like a few more, so I was going to wait until Poltava where you are awarded a whole bunch for that single scenario and this is also about the time that they become really necessary...but I just realized during my nap today...Instead of them being the 4 starred and 3 starred beasts they were in my Manstein playthrough they will be 1 star peashooters in comparison because of the 25% experience start. Thoughts on how to mitigate this? Based on how they gain experience maybe I should sell my mobil AA and just work on another 88?


4) Other thoughts include upgrades:
a) Bf-109F's can be upgraded to G's, but I was thinking of waiting until they reached 4 stars to do it, or that might just take too long as I like to buy OS up full before I upgrade. Thoughts?
b) Same thing for my Henkel upgrades.
c) Same thing for my Bf-110F's?
Do you always upgrade as soon as you can or wait until they get more experience before making the switch?


Thanks for sharing your thoughts, as you guys are the best...Now it is off to the grocery store to do my 2 weeks shopping for my family...anyone want to take a guess on how much we spend a week on food for a family of 8 kids?

[PeteMitchell]

Now it is off to the grocery store to do my 2 weeks shopping for my family...anyone want to take a guess on how much we spend a week on food for a family of 8 kids?

Haha... writing lesson!
So what Sd.Kfz. do you use for a 2 weeks shopping?! (14 days x 10 people x 3 meals?)

[captainjack]

If you're going to swap to a Panzer 3F to a 4 you might as well do it straight away as all the 3 series upgrades will be wasted as soon as you change it.

The 109F to G upgrade is definitely worth it for the range alone, but the extra 2 attack is usually worth on average 1 extra kill per combat (slightly more with overstrength).
The 110 upgrades are all useful - I'd suggest it's worth it as soon as you can.

The HE177 is good but has a low AD and is quite a bit more expensive than a Do217, so more expensive to overstrength and more likely to lose overstrength. Since overstrength directly affects bomber efficiency, this matters more than with most other units. If your He111 has good heroes the upgrade is a good move, otherwise since bombers gain experience so quickly, I'd be tempted to sell it and buy a new Do217 which will provide only marginally less effectiveness at a lower price. Value for money is a hard one to work out since bomber efficiency is only influenced by strength and experience so cost at overstrength needs to be compared, and attack stats and ammo vary with price. I suspect it's probably quite a close call since higher ammo has quite an impact on time spent doing something useful other than reloading and the Heinkel also has slightly better combat stats.

Personally I train up a Do17 early on, so I can deploy a 2 or 3* 217 as soon as they are available, but usually like to keep a 111 for conversion to a 177 for Stalingard Docks and Kremenchug, where the slightly better naval attack is useful.

[goose_2]

Quick Update because I have started Kharkov 42 and will probably keep this playthrough as the planning and execution of one of these battles has gotten to be quite the ordeal. 42 might indeed break me.

I sold Pz3F I wanted the extra prestige and would rather start with Pz4 of some kind rather than purchase Pz4 at full price. So we will see if I get lucky in Simferopol.

Kharkov 42 is super tough at this level as their tanks are so hard hitting, and their AA is already super annoying.

What I have decided to try and do is build up experience on a unit before upgrading them to the next in family upgrade so I can maximize the cheapness of the OS I apply to the piece.

The one exception might be the 3rd SE Pz3H. He got reduced to 1 str by a double attack of T-34/40's. He is at just 1 star of Experience but that H versus the J/1, or what I am sure will be L next scenario is looking mighty tempting.

It amazes me how much thought process goes into maximizing every last bit or prestige at this level. Every single point counts and as such much deliberation goes into whether or not to buy replacements in scenario or wait until after the scenario to limit prestige lost. Even then accumulation over the course of a Campaign is extremely difficult and will be down right impossible once I hit 43...not to mention 44, 45 is starting to look impossible.

But again I will try and document all of the trials and tribulations.

Thanks for the continued interest and wonderful feedback.

[goose_2]

Quick Update...busy weekend, where I had some extended alone time where I was able to bust through some serious gaming...
Finished Simferopol, and Sevastopol Siege.
Simferopol was nothing much to report as no heroes that I remember being awarded, but Bastogne Assault was +3 Defense paradise, as 3 of my units were awarded with that beautiful hero...StuG3F, Sturmpanzer, and +1 Movement Pz4G all awarded with that hero trait...also my 14 Str Uber Henkel was awarded with a +2 Att hero.

I have tried the first 3 days of Sevastopol Assault and will be starting over as that stinkin mission is bristling with arty and AA and is extremely difficult to play. I am struggling with motivation to play that mission as I am pretty certain that no matter what I am awarded in that mission it will not outweigh the heroes awarded in my Sevastopol Seige playthrough...So I should probably just bust it out so I can get back to Voronezh.

The problem/questions?...

1) Ok now I finally have the ability to upgrade to a Pz3L, but still trying to get 3rd SE Pz3H to 2 stars and only need like 10 or 12 more in experience points to get there. 1st SE Pz3J/1 needs like 16 experience to get to 3rd star and I think I want to wait until that happens to upgrade. I have already upgraded the 2nd SE Pz3J/1 to Pz3N for city fighting and that has gone well. Does anyone know the breakdown of all the units from Voronezh onwards in 42 as someone broke it out in my 40 Campaign? If so please post.

2) My newest StuG3F was awarded with a +3 Def Hero, and this is soon after receiving his Iron Cross 2nd Class and as such only has 1 star of experience. I now have 4 AT's with 1 being the towed 7.5 PaK with 2 stars that I use occasionally, 2 Panzerjaeger IB's both with 2 stars 1 with +1 Movement that is just waiting to be an Elefant, the other is waiting to be a JagdPanther. So...thoughts....Should I try to build up another StuG3F/8, or work to get hero for 2 star Panzerjaeger IB, or work to get StuG3F/8 up to 2 stars, or some kind of combination of all three?

I think this is it for now.

Super happy that my wife and I were able to get out and get all but a single gift for our family on Black Friday, one of the best times of the year.

[goose_2]

Quick Update... (spoliers)
I struggled with Bastogne Assault this weekend...I restarted and played through well until saved after receiving a +3 Att 2nd hero on my +1 Movement Gebirsjaeger, but needed to dump it as I lost Heinz Rondorf when their KV-5 came out to bear against me. (I just couldn't accept losing a unit, so I went back to the previous save from days before, which depressed me, but did it anyway for the very fact I wanted to pull of Decisive without losing a unit.)

Late last night I finished the task by the very skin of my teeth as I was able to get the last Victory hex by an awesome well thought out last day push.
Very tough battle and I was awarded that 2nd star on my SE Pz3H and many great 2nd heroes on many of my units that I will spell out in my AAR, and even ended up with more ending prestige than my Siege playthrough, but I will not be keeping this force rather than the assault force, based on the following:

1) The prestige I was awarded will be null and void when you consider how many units, which was almost all of them, which were chewed up very, very badly, replacements alone will be probably around 300 prestige itself, where as replacements for Assault will probably be less than 1000.

2) I was not awarded an SE unit at the start of Voronezh, I was awarded an SE unit at the start of Voronezh with my Siege playthrough. Pz4D (Spoiler Alert)

3) 3 +3 Defensive Heroes awarded is just too good to pass by. Defensive heroes are of supreme importance this go around as replacements and experience are so very critical at this difficulty level.

Now it is time to prepare for Voronezh and with the following to look forward to:
Scen Kills
Inf, Tank, Recon, AT, Art, AA, Fort, Fig, TB, Strat, Total, Scen
28, 11, 0, 5, 10, 3, 0, 4, 3, 0, 64; Voronezh

It is the number of tanks that concerns me as I want to bring fresh StuG3F/8, my PzIB to try and build up to 3rd star, not upgrade either the SE Pz3H, or 1st SE Pz3J/1.

Does anyone know the following?
1) How many KV's to they field on this map?
2) Do they spam KV's or do they spam BT's?

These will help me along with watching some online playthroughs, probably going to attempt over the weekend, but extremely busy this weekend with my twins having their B'day celebration as well as their Confirmation celebration on Sunday. They are so ready to receive the Lord's Supper.

Thanks again for all the encouragement and continued support as I slog through this insane level.

[goose_2]

Ok, I have done some research and based on watching Idlecleese's and Deducter's playthroughs of Voronezh...this map should be no problem even at this new level.

Very few AA's, and the only real difficult area of the map is Voronezh itself which once it is properly flanked, should be able to bust through no problem.

So I have finished preparing and deployed my forces, so I should start tackling this map this weekend.