Supermax-Moriss restart (Game stopped)

Kragdob · Post by **Kragdob** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:56 am

Stauffenberg wrote:I think it's too much if we alter the tech levels for Russia because if we do so then we force players to play extreme like Morris does or the Russians will be left behind too much. Morris is just focusing on a few techs with the Russians, hoping to cripple the Germans by the end of 1942 so the lack of air tech won't come back and bite him. I wonder how it's possible for Morris to get better armor and infantry tech that Germany when Germany gets extra labs earlier than Russia. So Morris much be using a lot of focus when developing techs. Should we maybe only allow countries at war to set focus for techs? That means Russia will have a balanced tech progress until Barbarossa starts.

I think this is quite a good idea this prevent both Soviets and US to have strong INF/ORG and STRAT very early.

I would like suggest another possibility for altering 1941 period. Since Shock armies weren't really that strong and all Soviet success in 1941 was really due to extreme Germans weakness than maybe:
=> reduce Siberian reserves to 2-3 mechs only OR even completely remove them OR only add extra leader on turn 41 only.
=> deepen German effectiveness drop so it really hurts them (so they drop to say 30-40 effectivenss). 1941 drop would be ~50%

This would only allow limited Soviet offensive as was in history that can push Germans but since both armies will be very weak I would not expect many full scale offensive. Such setup prevents 'max attack' strategies like Morris does.

pk867 · Post by **pk867** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:51 am

I have tried in my games to focus on INF tech, but have not reached the levels that Morris has.

My Russians are always weaker that the German units. They do not gain parity until 43'

Crazygunner1 · Post by **Crazygunner1** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:12 am

Why not just raise the german manpower a bit?

The way i see it: In 1941 and before the german player can build a lot of corps to support the line, that makes them less vulnerable to counter attack and large scale encirclements. It will also make germany less dependent on "not making a single mistake" in operations. As it is now, a small blow to the to the germans, let´s say loss of 6-7 corps(or similar loss of ground units worth around 250PPs) will have severe consequences, halt an offensive for atlest half a year or maybe even cause major collapse in the front line so they will be on the defense for the remainder of the game.

In reality during winter 41 the germans took heavy losses on some parts of the front but manage to salvage and regroup to summer offensive in 42. In GS that can usually never happen. So maybe we could try and similate that instead?

What do you think, will it solve the problem?

Crazyg

supermax · Post by **supermax** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:10 pm

Cybvep · Post by **Cybvep** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:44 pm

Which month is it? The loss of 2 ARMs must hurt. I don't see how he can defeat your forces in the south in 1941. If he didn't find an another exploit, he will be hard pressed by the Germans in 1942. Be sure to prepare for massive landings in France, though.

Peter Stauffenberg · Post by **Peter Stauffenberg** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:49 pm

It seems to me that Morris is burning his Russians the same way as the British. Maybe he doesn't believe the war will end till 1945 so he can just do all he can to inflict German losses. The big problem for Russia is that Russians units keep dying and the Germans can just repair their losses.

When a super aggressive player like Morris is going down the drain the way he does then I think it's too early to say the Russians are way too strong. They're really dangerous against careless Axis players, but against good Axis play (retreat to a solid river line) then it's hard for the Russians.

You can surely see the frustration behind Morris'es attacks. He knows that he's not getting the strategic result he had hoped for (similar to the last game), but instead of accepting that he continues to storm the German river line hoping for a miracle.

I foresee a very difficult 1942 for the Russians.

So if we make changes we have to be sure we don't overdo anything so the Russian winter offensive becomes too weak.

Peter Stauffenberg · Post by **Peter Stauffenberg** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:52 pm

Cybvep wrote:Which month is it? The loss of 2 ARMs must hurt. I don't see how he can defeat your forces in the south in 1941. If he didn't find an another exploit, he will be hard pressed by the Germans in 1942. Be sure to prepare for massive landings in France, though.

Morris has lost 3 armor units, several mechs and even some HQ's. I think that Morris has put all his eggs into one basket. This basket is called drain Germany of all oil. That is the only was Morris can win the game now. He must wear down the German oil levels so the Allied landing in 1942 can't be met with Luftwaffe and armor counter attacks. If the German oil consuming units are grounded then these units will get ashore and the Allied production will eventually get the better of the Germans.

So Supermax is probably wise saving oil wherever he can. He doesn't even have to spend a lot in Russia in 1942 because the Russians are so battered now. His main task is to crush the Allied 1942 landing in France. If that one fails then it's game over for Morris.

Plaid · Post by **Plaid** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:07 pm

It weird plan to drain german oil without any single strategic bomber. Looks impossible to me.
In my game I have ~800 oil and it increase every turn, despite I move anything I want without second though or any oil conservation.
I even hunt partisans with tanks and bombers to get some experience

Mas have larger force of oil-consuming units, but hes consumenet can't be 2 times bigger, then I have, yes?

Cybvep · Post by **Cybvep** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:09 pm

Still, I think that his main objective should be to capture the oil fields in the Caucasus. Even Stalingrad is not as important as these oil fields.

Also, how did you managed to have 800 oil by the end of 1941? O_o

supermax · Post by **supermax** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:59 pm

Stauffenberg wrote:
Cybvep wrote:Which month is it? The loss of 2 ARMs must hurt. I don't see how he can defeat your forces in the south in 1941. If he didn't find an another exploit, he will be hard pressed by the Germans in 1942. Be sure to prepare for massive landings in France, though.
Morris has lost 3 armor units, several mechs and even some HQ's. I think that Morris has put all his eggs into one basket. This basket is called drain Germany of all oil. That is the only was Morris can win the game now. He must wear down the German oil levels so the Allied landing in 1942 can't be met with Luftwaffe and armor counter attacks. If the German oil consuming units are grounded then these units will get ashore and the Allied production will eventually get the better of the Germans.

So Supermax is probably wise saving oil wherever he can. He doesn't even have to spend a lot in Russia in 1942 because the Russians are so battered now. His main task is to crush the Allied 1942 landing in France. If that one fails then it's game over for Morris.

Well, yo summed it up well. Moriss is draining my oil... I am hovering just above 200 right now. So you can rest assured that i wont be careless with the precious liquid in 1942. I agree with borger on the french landing, it will need to be soundly defeated. I have already been transferring forces from the eastern front to france, and i have 2 ftr in the build queue right now, planning to build 2 more in the next 2 turns, brining my total ftr to stave off the invasion to 7 or 8 since i will be able to transfer planes from the eastern front. Looking at russian ftr tech, i can manage with just 1 german ftr, and the minors. Anyway ...

The big question is what kind of offensive i can launch in russia in 1942. My response is that i can do a fairly interesting one if i have focus and limited aims. I can produce more and more inf corps and launch myself on moscow. I believe this would become anvery good defensive line ince i have the russian capital.

The med should not be neglected. Since i am posting 1 turn late, you shall see tha with the curve ball ive trown moriss last turn, a realm of possibilities has now oppened itself for ammiddle east campaign.

Might be that this is whe i will focus my offensive potential in 1942 to solve the oil problem. Anyway the russian will be in no fit state to do anything about it. I could also do a southern offensive to grab the caucasus oilfield while at the same time i do a med campaign?

Plaid · Post by **Plaid** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:00 pm

I have AAR going in this forum. Didn't do any special, but I do have 800 oil in winter 1941-42.

Actually I never had oil issues after GS 2.0 release. In older version oil issues were very common to me, I had low oil at the end of 1941 and almost no oil at the end of 1942.

supermax · Post by **supermax** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:06 pm

Cybvep wrote:Which month is it? The loss of 2 ARMs must hurt. I don't see how he can defeat your forces in the south in 1941. If he didn't find an another exploit, he will be hard pressed by the Germans in 1942. Be sure to prepare for massive landings in France, though.

No he wont defeat the germans in 1941. Its actually looking just like the opposite, i am soundly defeating him hey?

Crazygunner1 · Post by **Crazygunner1** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:26 pm

Plaid wrote:I have AAR going in this forum. Didn't do any special, but I do have 800 oil in winter 1941-42.

Actually I never had oil issues after GS 2.0 release. In older version oil issues were very common to me, I had low oil at the end of 1941 and almost no oil at the end of 1942.

That is because you are so good

If you play a normal game without any clear winner or looser, then you start to have trouble with oil in 43, after that when allies push and Rumania is captured it goes very quickly.

Crazyg

Toby42 · Post by **Toby42** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:50 pm

So, how do you generate more oil?

Crazygunner1 · Post by **Crazygunner1** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:11 pm

Tombstone wrote:So, how do you generate more oil?

You can increase oil production by researching industrial.

Ofcourse by capturing new oil sources

Crazy

Diplomaticus · Post by **Diplomaticus** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:30 pm

It would be fantastic to get to the Russian oil fields--Maikop is looking invitingly close to AGS right now since you dispatched those 2 ARM. However, with an oil reserve of only 200, and the certainty of another big invasion coming in '42, I don't know. Is there enough oil to do all this?

supermax · Post by **supermax** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:52 am

Well. Moriss continues to batter our lines and inflict casualities. Both sides loose heavily.

Crazygunner1 · Post by **Crazygunner1** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:55 am

So the coffin is shut in NA...you managed to squeese it in there after all, when you first wrote you had a surprize in NA i thought Morris left cities in Egypt undefended and you moved your transport over there. But this is equally good.

In the north it looks like you can start railing corps to the "jump spot" for your planned encirclement. It seems that nothing will stand between you and the gates of Moscow now.

Or may i suggest that you rail over 2 tanks, one from Kiev and other one from Gomel to Djnepoptrovsk, it will make a good addition to the left hook towards Kharkov and then continue towards Kursk or Voronetz to to seal the encirclement. Take Orel from the north. How many more winter turns are there?

Just to make sure Morris doesn´t retreat, you can "let him have a small breakthrough" in your line around Kiev just to keep him engaged and suck him into it. He will probably be so blinded by that small success that he won´t notice you powerful build up from your starting points around Djnepopetrovsk and Bryansk. As soon as the weather clears you execute....

Just make sure you have strong good forces protecting Kiev and Gomel, let the Axis minor allies take the blow in order to free up more german troops for your spearheads.

If you do this i think you should focus only on this and not other operations for now, it will increse your chance of success!!! After that Morris probably lost 70-80% of his army in Russia.

Crazyg

Diplomaticus · Post by **Diplomaticus** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:35 am

Max, you were wondering how M can afford all those repairs. Maybe a really big Murmansk convoy came through?

I know you're conserving oil, but I hope you get a chance to use your hard-won control of the Atlantic to your advantage.

amcdonel · Post by **amcdonel** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:44 am

gchristie wrote:When rejecting the French Armistice, does one have to capture all of the key cities in NA before capturing Paris to trigger Spain joining the Axis, or can one reject the armistice, capture Paris (assuming this all happens after the second June 1940 date) then finish capturing the key NA cities and still have Spain join?

I think it is the former, but the Magnum Opus, er, manual is a bit vague

Regards,

gchristie - Who is now kickin' it SdKfz 251/1-style which is much cooler than that old destroyer!

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Supermax-Moriss restart (Game stopped)

Turn 46.