He looses entrenchment and effectiveness for moving and still he can't run away from panzers
AAR: Operation Barbarossa-Fortress Europa(no Massina please)
Moderators: rkr1958, Happycat, Slitherine Core
Winter 42-43
Well, well, first apologies for not posting for a long while my paint software was @$%&*^ up. I downloaded one last night and installed it on my cpmputer, so here i am back. (Ronnie - edited for language).
Quick summary of the game so far: Its not going well! This italian surrender early in the game eliminated 50% of my oil supply and also as you know kinda taxed my manpower big time. The allies were able to cut through southern Vichy france and take advantage of the fact that my main effort was in Russia.
Massina has done a very good job of bombing my oil production and also defending russia. Altough he has mainly an infantry army, at least it didnt crumble. My grand plan for the rest of the game is simple: 1 more offensive in Russia in 1943 to win some time, defend and use land for time, resist as much as possible in Poland in 44-45. In the west, a counter-offensive in winter-spring 1943, then defend at Paris river-line summer 43, then retreat in winter 44 to fortification line and northern Belgium-Netherland with a triple line of troops and 4-5 FTR to cover it all.
If i can do this correctly, the allies might just be out of time. If i can pull a minor victory or a tie from this "Romegate" disaster i'll be very proud of me
Anyway, here are 2 screen captures:
Quick summary of the game so far: Its not going well! This italian surrender early in the game eliminated 50% of my oil supply and also as you know kinda taxed my manpower big time. The allies were able to cut through southern Vichy france and take advantage of the fact that my main effort was in Russia.
Massina has done a very good job of bombing my oil production and also defending russia. Altough he has mainly an infantry army, at least it didnt crumble. My grand plan for the rest of the game is simple: 1 more offensive in Russia in 1943 to win some time, defend and use land for time, resist as much as possible in Poland in 44-45. In the west, a counter-offensive in winter-spring 1943, then defend at Paris river-line summer 43, then retreat in winter 44 to fortification line and northern Belgium-Netherland with a triple line of troops and 4-5 FTR to cover it all.
If i can do this correctly, the allies might just be out of time. If i can pull a minor victory or a tie from this "Romegate" disaster i'll be very proud of me
Anyway, here are 2 screen captures:
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Crazygunner1
- Major - 8.8 cm FlaK 36
- Posts: 959
- Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 4:13 pm
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Crazygunner1
- Major - 8.8 cm FlaK 36
- Posts: 959
- Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 4:13 pm
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Crazygunner1
- Major - 8.8 cm FlaK 36
- Posts: 959
- Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 4:13 pm
There is one of his mech that has been upgraded, you can see it in France, so my guess is that he will upgrade thoose others before summer arrives in France. But Germans probably still have tech advantage, aint gonna help that much since the allies outnumber and have air superiority.Plaid wrote:What you MP like now? Around 25% I may guess...Or higher?
This british mechs have truck skin at 1943 meaning that unit is pretty obsolete in terms of tech...Aren't they weaker, then your german corps?
Attempting to attack or any kind of offensive without aircover is usually very costly....especially for Germans
Crazyg
Yeah, close to 25%Plaid wrote:What you MP like now? Around 25% I may guess...Or higher?
This british mechs have truck skin at 1943 meaning that unit is pretty obsolete in terms of tech...Aren't they weaker, then your german corps?
Arrgghhh do you think i can hold the line at the fortification setup i am preparing?
As stated in my post, i am going exclusively on the defensive on all fronts. I'll try to delay the allies as much as possible before they get to the fortification line, and then hope it holds. I'll have 4 FTR ready to go with dog fight LVL 5 (just developped) ready to go for the summer. It may help?Crazygunner1 wrote:There is one of his mech that has been upgraded, you can see it in France, so my guess is that he will upgrade thoose others before summer arrives in France. But Germans probably still have tech advantage, aint gonna help that much since the allies outnumber and have air superiority.Plaid wrote:What you MP like now? Around 25% I may guess...Or higher?
This british mechs have truck skin at 1943 meaning that unit is pretty obsolete in terms of tech...Aren't they weaker, then your german corps?
Attempting to attack or any kind of offensive without aircover is usually very costly....especially for Germans
Crazyg
I wonder how the fortification will hold against so overwhelming an airpower. My MECH line of defenses with river in the Arnhem gap , is it strong enough?
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Crazygunner1
- Major - 8.8 cm FlaK 36
- Posts: 959
- Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 4:13 pm
If you can muster up 2 more fighters in Europe(german) then i would feel more secure, cause then you will be able to causee him so much damage that he has to spend most of his PPs repairing his airforce and ground units without being able to purchase any new units. I count 4 RAF fighters atleast and 2 US CVs. If you can isolate the RAF fighters to take a battle further in land without support from CV you slight upper hand might be eonough to damage them so much he has to retreat or loose them. Doing that you have delayed any severe airstrikes atleast 3 turns....Also try and hide you fighters until he commits totally...
Firstline of defense looks good, don´t think you can to that much more....
Arnhem line may i suggest: Put 4 more inf or take retreated ones from the firstline in France. 1 just south of Hague, another souteast to close the gap. 2 more in the forest squares just west of Cologne. That way you will create a "bottle neck" in your weak point of the line. He can only attack from 2 squares at the most and is submitting his own forces to vulnerable attacks.
With all this you will surely stop him in 43. 1944 will be tougher but you can adjust later....perhaps move some troops from Russia.
Firstline of defense looks good, don´t think you can to that much more....
Arnhem line may i suggest: Put 4 more inf or take retreated ones from the firstline in France. 1 just south of Hague, another souteast to close the gap. 2 more in the forest squares just west of Cologne. That way you will create a "bottle neck" in your weak point of the line. He can only attack from 2 squares at the most and is submitting his own forces to vulnerable attacks.
With all this you will surely stop him in 43. 1944 will be tougher but you can adjust later....perhaps move some troops from Russia.
If you can get *somewhere* something like 4 tanks (and oil for them), and maybe bomber or two, this allied western offencive can be "stopped" fast and in very painful for allies way - dead troops can't attack. Bad side of sitting (even in forts) and waiting for allies is that they will most likely use 2 air attacks per ground attack, so your units will be orange and will fight very bad.
If you have any offencive-like troops in russia, they will do better in the west - you have so much terrain in russia to retreat...
If you have any offencive-like troops in russia, they will do better in the west - you have so much terrain in russia to retreat...
I am planning to put more troops near the Arnhem Gap.Plaid wrote:If you can get *somewhere* something like 4 tanks (and oil for them), and maybe bomber or two, this allied western offencive can be "stopped" fast and in very painful for allies way - dead troops can't attack. Bad side of sitting (even in forts) and waiting for allies is that they will most likely use 2 air attacks per ground attack, so your units will be orange and will fight very bad.
If you have any offencive-like troops in russia, they will do better in the west - you have so much terrain in russia to retreat...
Also have 2 german tanks ready to rail to West. 1 is presently is Rostov (just back from Caucasus) and the other one is in Kursk. Also i have Rommel which i will pull out of the Caucasus when the good weather hits. 1 more tank is in the Groznyy viscinity i will rail that as well(when it gets out of the Caucasus).
As for fighters i have 2 on sentry (to be repaired) on the western front. 2 in Rumania (i will pull one out and keep 1 in Ploesti). 1 more fighters on rest and refit in Rostov (need to be repaired). My bomber force also wont be needed in Russia anymore for 43 i plan to retreat anyway. They need to be repaired big time, but they can be operational soon.
So both you guys thinks i should send myself on the offensive? I dunno about that, he has so many troops... AND PLANES. I figure that if i stay put with giving him only cities, rivers to attack over and 2 hexes max from wich to attack from that i have a chance, even if my troops are in the orange, i can rotate the ones from the rear if need be.
Remember also that my fighters, even if dog fight LVL 5, will be shitty performing (2 quality 6 survival ) so i am not banking on them to be reallly helpful unless i put all my pp into repairing them... Fact of the matter is that the western allies have overwhelming power, so if i go on the offensive, i think i'll get crushed. My reasonning comes from my earlier game against Panzer general, where ive been put in that difficult manpower situation. I tought i could sendmyself on the offensive, and the troop didnt do to bad, but after 2 turns my aircover was completly blown and then the russians swoped in for the kill from above...
By the way my oil is over 200 and i am producing anywhere between 30 and 40 units per turn. So i should be ok for a while.supermax wrote:I am planning to put more troops near the Arnhem Gap.Plaid wrote:If you can get *somewhere* something like 4 tanks (and oil for them), and maybe bomber or two, this allied western offencive can be "stopped" fast and in very painful for allies way - dead troops can't attack. Bad side of sitting (even in forts) and waiting for allies is that they will most likely use 2 air attacks per ground attack, so your units will be orange and will fight very bad.
If you have any offencive-like troops in russia, they will do better in the west - you have so much terrain in russia to retreat...
Also have 2 german tanks ready to rail to West. 1 is presently is Rostov (just back from Caucasus) and the other one is in Kursk. Also i have Rommel which i will pull out of the Caucasus when the good weather hits. 1 more tank is in the Groznyy viscinity i will rail that as well(when it gets out of the Caucasus).
As for fighters i have 2 on sentry (to be repaired) on the western front. 2 in Rumania (i will pull one out and keep 1 in Ploesti). 1 more fighters on rest and refit in Rostov (need to be repaired). My bomber force also wont be needed in Russia anymore for 43 i plan to retreat anyway. They need to be repaired big time, but they can be operational soon.
So both you guys thinks i should send myself on the offensive? I dunno about that, he has so many troops... AND PLANES. I figure that if i stay put with giving him only cities, rivers to attack over and 2 hexes max from wich to attack from that i have a chance, even if my troops are in the orange, i can rotate the ones from the rear if need be.
Remember also that my fighters, even if dog fight LVL 5, will be shitty performing (2 quality 6 survival ) so i am not banking on them to be reallly helpful unless i put all my pp into repairing them... Fact of the matter is that the western allies have overwhelming power, so if i go on the offensive, i think i'll get crushed. My reasonning comes from my earlier game against Panzer general, where ive been put in that difficult manpower situation. I tought i could sendmyself on the offensive, and the troop didnt do to bad, but after 2 turns my aircover was completly blown and then the russians swoped in for the kill from above...
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Crazygunner1
- Major - 8.8 cm FlaK 36
- Posts: 959
- Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 4:13 pm
Theyve got nothing better to do in Russia anymore. Seems like Massina produced mostly infantry and still is... I do not see many tanks and airplanes.Crazygunner1 wrote:oh yeah...a couple of tanks in Europe would be nice, stay away from the coast and they may cause some serious damage....
Although that enabled him to smother me with troops into my path, this will now give me a chance to have an ok 1943
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schwerpunkt
- Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
- Posts: 367
- Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:26 am
- Location: Western Australia
Max,
An extract from Massinia's last post might be helpful;
"Two TACs, then an ARM attack and then 3 INF attacks take the city (Astrakhan).
My FTRs are still getting good odds and good results against German MECHs, I'm able to destroy the one to the East of Grozny and advance an INF unit to also take out the 4-step INF unit that had retreated. Then on to Grozny, two TAC attacks take 4 steps off the defender and the INF attacks are able to take the city."
Any unit that loses 4 steps to air attacks is going to be pretty low in efficiency and vulnerable to ground attack. The secret is to keep the Red airforce weak for as long as possible.... Once the russian player has lots of FTRs and TACs, life gets very nasty as losses start to stack up. Winter obviously doesnt help the Germans as its expensive to contest the air.
I'm not sure obviously how "lucky" Massinias air might be but with respect to being on the receiving end of "fluky" die rolls, you can look forward to v2.00 which incorporates 3 die roll averaging which eliminates out-lier results - there is still some variability in results but they are not as extreme.
An extract from Massinia's last post might be helpful;
"Two TACs, then an ARM attack and then 3 INF attacks take the city (Astrakhan).
My FTRs are still getting good odds and good results against German MECHs, I'm able to destroy the one to the East of Grozny and advance an INF unit to also take out the 4-step INF unit that had retreated. Then on to Grozny, two TAC attacks take 4 steps off the defender and the INF attacks are able to take the city."
Any unit that loses 4 steps to air attacks is going to be pretty low in efficiency and vulnerable to ground attack. The secret is to keep the Red airforce weak for as long as possible.... Once the russian player has lots of FTRs and TACs, life gets very nasty as losses start to stack up. Winter obviously doesnt help the Germans as its expensive to contest the air.
I'm not sure obviously how "lucky" Massinias air might be but with respect to being on the receiving end of "fluky" die rolls, you can look forward to v2.00 which incorporates 3 die roll averaging which eliminates out-lier results - there is still some variability in results but they are not as extreme.
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Crazygunner1
- Major - 8.8 cm FlaK 36
- Posts: 959
- Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 4:13 pm
Is it proper to post what Massina writes in his AAr here?schwerpunkt wrote:Max,
An extract from Massinia's last post might be helpful;
"Two TACs, then an ARM attack and then 3 INF attacks take the city (Astrakhan).
My FTRs are still getting good odds and good results against German MECHs, I'm able to destroy the one to the East of Grozny and advance an INF unit to also take out the 4-step INF unit that had retreated. Then on to Grozny, two TAC attacks take 4 steps off the defender and the INF attacks are able to take the city."
Any unit that loses 4 steps to air attacks is going to be pretty low in efficiency and vulnerable to ground attack. The secret is to keep the Red airforce weak for as long as possible.... Once the russian player has lots of FTRs and TACs, life gets very nasty as losses start to stack up. Winter obviously doesnt help the Germans as its expensive to contest the air.
I'm not sure obviously how "lucky" Massinias air might be but with respect to being on the receiving end of "fluky" die rolls, you can look forward to v2.00 which incorporates 3 die roll averaging which eliminates out-lier results - there is still some variability in results but they are not as extreme.
Schwerpunkt is currently is a game with Massinia so I'm sure he probably cleared that with him before posting. I think Neil's posting is to alleviate fears that Massinia is getting very lucky but instead that his good combat results are due to good planning and execution. That's my interpretation.Crazygunner1 wrote:Is it proper to post what Massina writes in his AAr here?schwerpunkt wrote:Max,
An extract from Massinia's last post might be helpful;
"Two TACs, then an ARM attack and then 3 INF attacks take the city (Astrakhan).
My FTRs are still getting good odds and good results against German MECHs, I'm able to destroy the one to the East of Grozny and advance an INF unit to also take out the 4-step INF unit that had retreated. Then on to Grozny, two TAC attacks take 4 steps off the defender and the INF attacks are able to take the city."
Any unit that loses 4 steps to air attacks is going to be pretty low in efficiency and vulnerable to ground attack. The secret is to keep the Red airforce weak for as long as possible.... Once the russian player has lots of FTRs and TACs, life gets very nasty as losses start to stack up. Winter obviously doesnt help the Germans as its expensive to contest the air.
I'm not sure obviously how "lucky" Massinias air might be but with respect to being on the receiving end of "fluky" die rolls, you can look forward to v2.00 which incorporates 3 die roll averaging which eliminates out-lier results - there is still some variability in results but they are not as extreme.