Pike and Shot announced

[Aryaman]

BTW how is random managed in the game?

Randomly

Seriously, we too don't like games where the random factor is too decisive. Conversely too much determinism isn't good either, otherwise we may as well go and play chess.

We hope to get the balance right using bell curves and skewed bell curves.

Good, thanks for the swift answers, just another question, armies of ·=YW were usually multinational,would those units of different nations within each side be represented graphically?

[Scutarii]

Thanks for the reply, well i ask about if there is a plan for a pack system because i need talk with economic department and adquisitions department hehehe

I search the dragoons action and was Battle of Preston in 1715 a small action this made me ask if game can deal with small actions, i refer edit units in a scenario to cover small combats where every unit represent a company or similar.

Interesting point Aryaman, i am curious to in this multinational armies... you have this units in the mother army with their own flags or you need buy them as allies???

Thanks.

[Navaronegun]

Actually, Piling on Scutari's above question, RBS, in your opinion, are the bare bones mod- able enough to also handle the Wars of Louis XIV (being a tad expansive with that term here...I include everything through the War of the Spanish Succession), the Jacobin Uprising and the Great Northern War?

[TheGrayMouser]

Actually, Piling on Scutari's above question, RBS, in your opinion, are the bare bones mod- able enough to also handle the Wars of Louis XIV (being a tad expansive with that term here...I include everything through the War of the Spanish Succession), the Jacobin Uprising and the Great Northern War?

Just guessing here, but based on RBS's description of the unit types/weapons systems that will be in the game (possibly not all of them "activated" in the ist releases) and that the game appears to be quite moddable, you likely could represent the GNW quite well.

[Navaronegun]

Actually, Piling on Scutari's above question, RBS, in your opinion, are the bare bones mod- able enough to also handle the Wars of Louis XIV (being a tad expansive with that term here...I include everything through the War of the Spanish Succession), the Jacobin Uprising and the Great Northern War?

Just guessing here, but based on RBS's description of the unit types/weapons systems that will be in the game (possibly not all of them "activated" in the ist releases) and that the game appears to be quite moddable, you likely could represent the GNW quite well.

I agree, hence my question. The STUB engine is very flexible when it comes to unit stats and creation, having modded quite a bit for WW 2 stuff. Frankly, black powder is much easier to quantify (fewer variables). In fact the prospect of trying to do just that already has me rubbing my hands together in a sinister fashion (well, not literally, but you know what I mean.... ).

[TheGrayMouser]

Haha , me too, although the prospectts of a TYW (never before scene in a PC game) and the Italian Wars will will likely satisfy me a long time before I dive into modding, but then again the GNW fascinates me and again, I don't think its ever been presented in a PC game. The TT Ren rules fall short of early 18th century and thus we wont have the absolute "detail" of some of the weaponry used ie the ren rules don't distinguish between plug and socket bayonet, nor flintlock vs matchlock ( or even the combo locks and swine feathers used by the empire) but still very feasible!
Cheers!

[Navaronegun]

Haha , me too, although the prospectts of a TYW (never before scene in a PC game) and the Italian Wars will will likely satisfy me a long time before I dive into modding, but then again the GNW fascinates me and again, I don't think its ever been presented in a PC game. The TT Ren rules fall short of early 18th century and thus we wont have the absolute "detail" of some of the weaponry used ie the ren rules don't distinguish between plug and socket bayonet, nor flintlock vs matchlock ( or even the combo locks and swine feathers used by the empire) but still very feasible!
Cheers!

Actually the weapons values will be fairly easy to modify. They are just numerical values (HE values, effectiveness at specific ranges). Likely P & S will have a melee attack rating and defense value (as opposed to AP in BA). So distinguishing between the different bayonet types will be fairly easy. In BA there is a "reload time" delay possible for Indirect Fire weapons (in turns). If P & S applies this to direct fire formations, then, "voila" you can do everything from a wheelock to a brown bess, frankly.

[collier4]

From the response to this so far, looks like Slitherine is on a winner with this one.

[rbodleyscott]

Actually the weapons values will be fairly easy to modify. They are just numerical values (HE values, effectiveness at specific ranges).

Actually not. Pike and Shot uses entirely different combat mechanisms from BA. It is a completely new game using the STUB engine, not a mod of BA.

Items such as HE values are part of the BA script base, not part of the STUB engine. Pike and Shot does not use them.

Nevertheless it is eminently moddable, although you would need to dip a toe into scripting to alter the behaviour of the various capabilities, which interact with each other in specific ways. They are emphatically not just numerical values.

The entire code base governing unit behaviour is entirely new. Minimal (if any) alteration would be required to cover the Great Northern War. Obviously the further away in time from the intended time period, the more alteration would be required.

Byzantine Games intends to bring out similar games covering other periods if Pike and Shot is well received.

[rbodleyscott]

I search the dragoons action and was Battle of Preston in 1715 a small action this made me ask if game can deal with small actions, i refer edit units in a scenario to cover small combats where every unit represent a company .

The target unit size for the system is battalion sized, however there is no fundamental reason why it cannot be used for smaller units. Some unit types are already only 100 or 150 men, and some of the ECW scenarios do use even smaller units.

[stockwellpete]

One of the things that was missing from FOG PC in the scenario editor was the ability to set different retreat directions for units from the same side. Having this facility would allow designers to create more complex and interesting scenarios, including ambushes and flanking attacks. Will this be possible in P+S please?

Also, I have designed a number of scenarios for FOG PC that are set in Scotland and Ireland in the 16thC (e.g. Flodden 1513, Linlithgow Bridge 1526, Pinkie Cleuch 1547, Kinsale 1601) that I tend to describe as "hybrid" battles, because they are really encounters with a mixture of late medieval and Renaissance elements. Will the scenario editor include a range of late medieval troop types so that these sort of scenarios on the European periphery might be replicated? Thanks.

[rbodleyscott]

One of the things that was missing from FOG PC in the scenario editor was the ability to set different retreat directions for units from the same side. Having this facility would allow designers to create more complex and interesting scenarios, including ambushes and flanking attacks. Will this be possible in P+S please?

Not entirely sure what you mean by this. Routing units rout away from the enemy, so tend to retreat off whichever map edge is nearest. So if they arrived on the flank they would tend to retreat towards that map edge.

It is easy enough to add flank marchers as reinforcements in the editor. Also the "random map" games already include the possibility of flank marches, using a different system.

Ambush scenarios are easy to do as the player can't see enemy units that are hidden by terrain contours, woods etc.

Of course they would not have much replay value, as after the first time the player would know what to expect. If you wanted to randomise the positions of the ambushers a bit, you would have to code this in the scenario script, which is not difficult.

Also, I have designed a number of scenarios for FOG PC that are set in Scotland and Ireland in the 16thC (e.g. Flodden 1513, Linlithgow Bridge 1526, Pinkie Cleuch 1547, Kinsale 1601) that I tend to describe as "hybrid" battles, because they are really encounters with a mixture of late medieval and Renaissance elements. Will the scenario editor include a range of late medieval troop types so that these sort of scenarios on the European periphery might be replicated? Thanks.

Not at present, but it would be very easy to set the units up in the unit definitions spreadsheet, using graphics from similar units. Also, that would allow you to name the unit types more appropriately to the scenario - you just need to add the unit names to the text definition file.

It is pretty simple stuff and we can post up a tutorial on how to do it once the game is published.

Of course, if you don't want to do that you can of course wait until we release an expansion covering the wars of the Tudors.

[stockwellpete]

Not entirely sure what you mean by this. Routing units rout away from the enemy, so tend to retreat off whichever map edge is nearest. So if they arrived on the flank they would tend to retreat towards that map edge.

It is easy enough to add flank marchers as reinforcements in the editor. Also the "random map" games already include the possibility of flank marches, using a different system.

Ambush scenarios are easy to do as the player can't see enemy units that are hidden by terrain contours, woods etc.

Of course they would not have much replay value, as after the first time the player would know what to expect. If you wanted to randomise the positions of the ambushers a bit, you would have to code this in the scenario script, which is not difficult.

Ok, it is just that the rout direction facility for individual units in the FOG PC scenario editor has never worked so all units from the same army rout in the same direction. This can spoil some scenarios very badly. Sounds like we will not have this problem in P+S, which is great news.

Not at present, but it would be very easy to set the units up in the unit definitions spreadsheet, using graphics from similar units. Also, that would allow you to name the unit types more appropriately to the scenario - you just need to add the unit names to the text definition file.

It is pretty simple stuff and we can post up a tutorial on how to do it once the game is published.

Of course, if you don't want to do that you can of course wait until we release an expansion covering the wars of the Tudors.

Terrific! The Nine Years War in Ireland (1590s) and the "Rough Wooing" of Scotland (1500-1550 approx) are very interesting conflicts.

[Scutarii]

rbodleyscott thanks for the reply, then engine is not fixed in certain sizes in units, nice, maybe this open a new world for modders/scen creators to cover small actions or center in a certain episode in a bigger battle.

Talking about other periods... maybe in future we can see the use of missing units like Elephants in a "colonial" expansion??? i see the FOGr books and i find interesting the new world conquistadores armies, small elite units VS big mob armies... something diferent have an expansion touching this colonial fights.

Maybe if is possible you can create a thread to post all info about game, with 7 pages now is hard remember where is certain info.

Thanks.

[Navaronegun]

Actually not. Pike and Shot uses entirely different combat mechanisms from BA. It is a completely new game using the STUB engine, not a mod of BA.

Items such as HE values are part of the BA script base, not part of the STUB engine. Pike and Shot does not use them.

Nevertheless it is eminently moddable, although you would need to dip a toe into scripting to alter the behaviour of the various capabilities, which interact with each other in specific ways. They are emphatically not just numerical values.

The entire code base governing unit behaviour is entirely new. Minimal (if any) alteration would be required to cover the Great Northern War. Obviously the further away in time from the intended time period, the more alteration would be required.

Byzantine Games intends to bring out similar games covering other periods if Pike and Shot is well received.

Thanks, RBS. We are talking about the same sort of file structure and construction, correct? .bsf, .bam, squads list file with values? I ask, because, obviously, I plan to dip a toe into the modding part.

[TheGrayMouser]

Hi RBS, what do the two musket graphics and the closed helm graphic represent in the lower right of the screenies
My guesses are the helmet represent % armoured?
ist musket: ranged capability?
second ?? no idea....

[LandMarine47]

Will there be skirmisher units?

[rbodleyscott]

Talking about other periods... maybe in future we can see the use of missing units like Elephants in a "colonial" expansion???.

The logic for elephants is already programmed into the P&S system. They just don't have graphics yet. Likewise the logic for horse and foot archers etc. Likeness the necessary capabilities for Aztecs, Tlaxcalans, Conquistadors etc.

[rbodleyscott]

Hi RBS, what do the two musket graphics and the closed helm graphic represent in the lower right of the screenies
My guesses are the helmet represent % armoured?
ist musket: ranged capability?
second ?? no idea....

The first musket icon is a temporary placeholder - it will eventually be a sword and represents close combat rating. The 2nd (really only) musket icon is shooting rating. The helmet is the armour rating.

The first 2 ratings are not actually used by the program to calculate combat results, but are themselves calculated from the combat logic to give the player some idea of the relative combat strengths of the units. However the tooltips give you % win/loss/draw chances for any combat before it is initiated, and a more detailed breakdown of the factors affecting the potential result of any combat is optionally available.

[rbodleyscott]

We are talking about the same sort of file structure and construction, correct? .bsf, .bam, squads list file with values? I ask, because, obviously, I plan to dip a toe into the modding part.

Yes, but most of the Attribs in the squads file are different.