GJS'44 Campaign Main Thread - Final June 16th 1944 Tournamen

[random27]

I m from cherbourg in france gmt +1
Those who know me know that i play at several different hours.
i ve never said it but i m cop in real life and that s for example why i could nt play too much last week

[k9mike]

Hey....me to. Hence the knick name...
Cherbourg....how cool is that... got to come see you someday...

[GottaLove88s]

Good morning officers! Now, I know I'll have to be polite or you guys will cuff me...

[GottaLove88s]

Gents, QUICK POLL ON INFANTRY DURABILITY:

We modified several factors while we were playtesting the original GJS campaign, to improve gameplay and realism, in particular the interaction between different unit types.

Several folks wanted to make infantry tougher, to protect them from expiring too easily, eg. after a well aimed mortar strike and a neighbouring enemy infantry taking their surrender. Granfali found a particularly clever way to do this as follows...

Normal BA: Morale starts at 100 for nearly all units, they become suppressed below 50, and die at -100
GJS: Morale still starts at 100 for all infantry types, but starts at 50 for all other types, suppressed below 0 (so infantry effectively get +50 more morale before they suppress)
Both ways work...

So the question is, do you want "Normal BA infantry" or "Tougher GJS infantry"? Please vote on this thread.
I'll setup squads.csv for June 6th with whichever vote wins over the next 24 hours...

NB. What we choose for June 6th isn't fixed in stone. We can agree to modify factors as we go along. Let's agree on which method we begin with...

[kingt]

Tougher.

[leci]

Morale etc. I have mixed feelings about this.

In reality given (in the main) years of inaction, Atlantic Wall (and reserve) units morale would have been high - albeit they suffered from a complacent attitude etc. But, clearly when the invasion started, morale would have suffered. This impact would have been compounded by lack of training, attitude and unit background/motivation re Ost units etc.

However, the above view needs to balanced against the background of units. Combat experienced troops (frontline and reserve) did experience a lift in morale once the invasion commenced ie in line with the empirical evidence of ethnic German units in terms of aggressive attack, counter attack and defense ie they welcomed the battle - the Allies were in no doubt about the military capabilities of German ethnic (and indeed certain volunteer Waffen SS units) even in adversity.

My view? Given the wide context, employ the BA rules.

Leci

[leci]

Morale etc. I have mixed feelings about this.

In reality given (in the main) years of inaction, Atlantic Wall (and reserve) units morale would have been high - albeit they suffered from a complacent attitude etc. But, clearly when the invasion started, morale would have suffered. This impact would have been compounded by lack of training, attitude and unit background/motivation re Ost units etc.

However, the above view needs to balanced against the background of units. Combat experienced troops (frontline and reserve) did experience a lift in morale once the invasion commenced ie in line with the empirical evidence of ethnic German units in terms of aggressive attack, counter attack and defense ie they welcomed the battle - the Allies were in no doubt about the military capabilities of German ethnic (and indeed certain volunteer Waffen SS units) even in adversity.

My view? Given the wide context, employ the BA rules.

Leci

[leci]

Not sure why I have sent the above twice.......?

[k9mike]

Trust me...you want Tougher...regular BA in general is not too realistic an balanced so what we tried to do is make things that way...hence the mod. Mortars are great an powerful in this game an need to be used...
My 2 cents

[kingt]

Yes, but in addition to historical data, we have to look at what's possible in BA so the game is more balanced between the two sides. From what I've read in the other forum, Allies encountered problems after the landings, as some of the historical advantages such as aerial superiority and a larger number of troops and tanks were not replicated correctly in the fame to offer a more balanced game play especially once German heavy armor BGs would have been engaged.

There are some very strong German BGs in the order of battle, which would have no problem repelling Allied attacks under current conditions and push Allied BGs back to the beaches. Take the Lehr BGs that are coming about a week in after the landings, and you'll see what I mean. I don't want to offer any hints to the enemy, but I certainly know how I'd order play those BGs in battle

So then, if infantry gets suppressed as easily as I have read, especially with the new stronger mortar teams, and airplanes don't do any real damage against armor, then not everything would be that historically correct, would it?

Not to mention that tanks won't get any move penalty because of the Allied air supremacy. Maybe in the future there should be a section in the rule book regarding German armor movement, say dice-controlled and weather-related to see whether Armor BGs can move each day, and how many sectors. In days with bad weather German tanks would move freely as there's no danger of being hunted down from the skies, while in all other days, a dice roll could determine how many sectors tanks can move under fire and whether they'd take any losses during.

[kingt]

I even have an example for dice rolling with two dices. GM would need to perform two two-dice rolls on days with good weather, one to determine movements, one to determine hits:

First dice roll for Movement:
7 - movement only if Caen is held so +1
5 to 9 (except 7) - +1 movement. If Caen is also held then +2
2 to 4 and 10 to 12 - +2 movement. If Caen is also held then +3
attacking adjacent sectors, but returning in the starting sector after the battle should be permitted no matter the outcome of the dice.

Second dice roll for Hits:
4 to 10 - no losses during day movement
3 or 11 - BG loses 1 medium tank (PZIV, Stug) or 1 armored support (Marder, Puma, AA) - German General to choose which one
2 or 12 - BG loses 1 Panther or take a 0.5 Tiger hit (that's to say a Tiger can't be used in the following day's battle) - German General to choose which one

On days with bad weather, Tanks would not be harmed by Allied planes and could move freely.

With such a rule in place, German tank advance would be somewhat tempered on some days.

[jcb989]

Gents, QUICK POLL ON INFANTRY DURABILITY:

So the question is, do you want "Normal BA infantry" or "Tougher GJS infantry"? Please vote on this thread.
I'll setup squads.csv for June 6th with whichever vote wins over the next 24 hours...

I suppose I would vote tougher.
The units that will start with 50, which ones are those exactly? I can see transports and mortars having 50 and maybe fixed MG's, but what else?

[k9mike]

I will let Jon handle this...

[kingt]

On a different topic: I have just downloaded the Ortona campaign (LST file provided by Amaris), which means that if packed correctly, the GJS maps can be downloaded on the iPad for each day.

[morge4]

Not sure on the Infantry...I'd kinda like to go back to normal infantry

[GottaLove88s]

Not sure on the Infantry...I'd kinda like to go back to normal infantry

You know what guys... the more that I listen (and think) about this, the more that I realise let's let GJS'44 evolve in its own direction...

For June 6th, we'll go back to the standard morale and suppression values for Battle Academy AND NOBODY GETS TO COMPLAIN DURING THE BATTLES!
But we can revisit our poll on whether or not to make infantry tougher once everyone's had a chance for a scrap, hehehe...

[k9mike]

Trust me...they will once they get playing...lol. Get a taste of those 3(or should we change those back to 4!) Barreled mortars...hehehe

[k9mike]

Trust me...they will once they get playing...lol. Get a taste of those 3(or should we change those back to 4!) Barreled mortars...hehehe

[GottaLove88s]

FLASH TO COMMANDERS:

Latest aerial reconnaissance indicates Germans concentrating forces on the Normandy beaches...
Recently taken Gold, Juno and Sword maps attached. Our aircraft over Courseulles was shot down...

Each map has five VP flags. On landing beaches all five flags belong to the Germans at the start of battle.
Allies must take and hold at least two VP flags before "2 turns remaining" to avoid dissolution.

Gold Beach


Juno Beach


Sword Beach

[leci]

Does not seem to open via my laptop and on my laptop and iPad not displayed correctly.

Leci