To Tame a Land

[Tiavals]

I have no problem with starting from scratch, if it means there will be more players and everyone will be happy about it. I can also choose different nations if I so wish.

It's up to the rest of you guys.

[Turk1964]

I would rather keep going as is but if we do then there wont be anybody left to play. So i vote in favour of a restart and change of armies if so desired.I also think a random draw should decide who attacks who to start and then positional thereafter.

Cheers Turk

[keyth]

Random draw is a nice touch

[Turk1964]

Yes i thought it would be great to have a random draw that way you have no control over whom you attack to start . Ok so lets see what everyone else has to say and hopefully we can get things rollong again.

[batesmotel]

I'm not sure that dropping the plus for taking the field is a good idea. I think there should still be some value in just winning the battle rather than just losing fewer points than your opponent does because they lost a larger percentage of their BGs.

I'm fine with a restart or a continuation as the group prefers. It would be nice to be back into the campaign but I also accept that I am out based on the original rules. Contrary to what others have claimed, I have not made any special pleading to have the rules changed so I wouldn't be eliminated although I did suggest to Keyth that they might not be working the way he intended and he might want to consider changing them for future play.

Chris

[keyth]

I'm not sure that dropping the plus for taking the field is a good idea. I think there should still be some value in just winning the battle rather than just losing fewer points than your opponent does because they lost a larger percentage of their BGs.
Chris

Happy to hear opinions on this.

I think +50 renown for taking the field is now too good a reward for the associated risk, but I can see that awarding nothing is a bit harsh. What do people think about +25 for taking the field?
Winning well should be encouraged but I can also see that a win reward could be appropriate. Again, I'm thinking +25.

Sound good/bad/totally wrong/none of the above?

[batesmotel]

+25 sounds worth trying. I think without any win bonus you may well see reknown deflation as the campaign goes on. i don't think +25 should cause too much reknown inflation.

Chris

[phlewis]

Perhaps I misunderstand the scoring system, but I don't see that the winner of a battle just loses fewer points than the loser. Unless both armies break doesn't the winner of the battle end up with a + to their renown based on a percentage of the forces they have left? So the bigger the win the more renown?

As far as the propose changes and starting over. Most of the changes are fine, and starting over gets everyone back into the campaign.

I do have some questions about the proposed controls over who can attack whom. In the initial campaign season are you only going to generate one battle per player or two? I would prefer two with the second battle being against a different opponent.

Exactly what positional restriction is being proposed on attacking an opponent in subsequent seasons?

Pat Lewis

[keyth]

Hi Pat,

The rules document isn't very clear - the percentage bonuses are there if you use less than 500 AP. Two random opponents for the first season would be an interesting way to mix things up, I like that idea.

The suggested positional restrictions:

"You cannot attack a faction that is more than (number of players/2) positions below you on the leader board on consecutive turns.

Example: with six players, the player in the lead could not attack 5th or 6th place on consecutive turns, they would have to fight 2nd, 3rd or 4th place before they could look further down the scoreboard."

[Turk1964]

So are we all keen to start again with the new amendmants to the rules.I havent seen any protests as of yet and i really like the idea of a random draw to start.I also agree if your IC is killed you have to wait for renown to build up before you can again use an IC. 500 would be a goodly amount and if killed again 1000 and so on.

Cheers Turk

[keyth]

Once we have heard from blbrowning and Aristides, we can make a decision - so far restart seems to be the favoured (and fairer) option. If we restart, please feel free to invite other players to join - I think 10 in total would be a good number but we could always stretch to 12.

Cheers!

[keyth]

FYI, I've PMd Aristides and bl... waiting for a response.

[Aristides]

Apologies for tardiness - I was away in London.

I have to say I think we should build upon what has happened so far - otherwise it simply lessens the value of playing well.
So i would vote for rule changes - but from now on, rather than ignoring 'history' and starting again.
As an exception, I think all those who have been unfortunate enough to lose their IC should be invited back, with whatever penalty we decide upon for the future - and anyone else free to join (the latter anyway a the end of each season?)

Random battles: I would say no, no and again no. It's a camapign. To me that means there has to be a strategic element outside of the actual battles. Ideally, each season would be a nail-biting decision about whom to attack. Weighing pros and cons - who knows? maybe even some diplomacy. And both those decisions and one's performance in battle should together decide the victor. Otherwise it's just a regular tourn with some chrome (which we could actually do, of course - campaigns are harder to run...)

IC loss: im not sure what the function of the rule is, actually. Is it to limit their use (why)? They're pretty expensive anyway. Perhaps the rule adds more complexity then it's worth? A role-playing aspect is always nice but notoriously tricky to implement. Perhaps best would simply be bigger prestige gain for winning and bigger prestige loss for losing when your IC is present (+/- 10%?) and not worrying about the actual death of the unit?

[Turk1964]

Ok s we could go into lengthy discussion about the current rules and what needs to be changed and what we dont like I propose that we restart the whole campaign again with amendmants suggested and no knockout for killed IC.I agree with Astrides that the cost of an IC is expensive enough penalty and maybe his loss should be the same as his cost 60.Although at the start of all this i was in favour of staying as is i had a rethink and odviuosly players were not happy with what was happening and restarting may get everyone playing again.

Cheers Turk

[Tophat1815]

I just want to join the campaign. It would seem to be easier to restart and define all the little quirks in the rules that need clarification as opposed to trying to make changes in an existing game.

In terms of IC leaders,could the problem be solved by having the players represent families with more than one male leader? So if one commander/son dies the next eldest assumes his position?

Also can we have a map displayed? Even though its not going to be used for movement purposes a good visual display helps set the mood. If nothing else assigning ourselves areas of the map can help with the bombastic banter.

Currently I finally got the updater to work for me so I am at the moment updating the base game so once that is done and i get "decline and fall" installed and updated I'll start going over the army builds and give my 2 choices.

[keyth]

Aristides re: the random battles, that is only for the first season to get the ball rolling.

I've not heard back from blbrowning, so I'm going to take an executive decision We will restart with updated rules - I will start a new clean thread today, with news, map, player info/leader board and rules at the top. Can you please let me know which two army lists you would like to begin the game with on the new thread when it is up.

The rationale behind points loss for losing an IC is that they are a precious resource, look after them. The scoring is skewed towards winning well, not winning at any cost - this rule forces you to consider the value of those last turn heroic/suicidal IC charges to tip the balance. It also adds a dimension that stops it simply being a league.

I think a restart is the right decision due to rules changes and having a new player on board.

[Turk1964]

I agree totally with the restart now that we have dusted the cobwebs off it should be a fantastic campaign.I will look forward to the new thread and a fresh start

Cheers Turk

[macsen]

Hi Keyth,

My armies will be Nikephorian Byzantine (later) and Early Bulgar (later). So what's next?

macsen (Gareth)

[keyth]

Hi Keyth,

My armies will be Nikephorian Byzantine (later) and Early Bulgar (later). So what's next?

macsen (Gareth)

Hi Gareth,

We are now using the 'To Tame a Land Redux' thread. I'll add your details and draw two random opponents for you to fight in the first season - check the 'News' at the top of the thread. From then on you can choose who to attack.

Cheers.