Field of Glory Tabletop Rankings Live!

MatthewP · Post by **MatthewP** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:24 pm

Can't beleive you ever went to school Dave.

azrael86 · Post by **azrael86** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:26 pm

iainmcneil wrote:Do you have any idea how difficult it is to make a flight simulator that actually works!

It's considerably easier than building the real plane.

iainmcneil wrote: And a flight simulator is just a physics model, not a gaming system!
A physics model has scope to be considerably more complex than a gaming system!

iainmcneil wrote:

Cricket and football have stunningly simple rules compared to FoG.
Try coding the lbw law against leg-spin ....

iainmcneil wrote:
The game cannot be an umpire. If the rules dont cover what happens it probably crashes. This is how programming works! Code can only deal with things you have thought of. As the rules dont cover every possible situation you need to arbitrate when these situations come up. In Programming terms that is an "Unhanlded Exception". I don;t think you grasp the scale of the issues involved and you don't need to. You just have to trust that we do

It seems that you are saying it is impossible to code a mathematical model. I agree that the AI is a challenge, but the actual game mechanics are all numerical - angles and distances. In fact most they are two-dimensional! So to have a version which handles the game WITHOUT being the opponent is not a huge issue. Obviously it may not look commercially viable but that ultimately depends on your market size, suppose you have 5 million players....

dave_r · Post by **dave_r** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:53 pm

Can't beleive you ever went to school Dave.

If you are claiming I am illiterate then that is a dirty lie. I can confirm my parents were married when I was born.

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:31 pm

Physics is well understood - you start from a point way way down the line and use what people have done over the last 500+ years to work from for equations etc. The people writing a fluight simulator dont work out physics, they just implement formulas.

The system is not a mathmatical problem with a solution - that is the point.A gaming system has to do both. If it were, all situations ever possible would be in the rules and you woudl never need an umpire. They are not as it would mean a rule book 10 times the size or more just to deal with the 1 in a million events. The Ai for chess, a game with 64 possibel locations and only a few variations in pieces can beaten by a human player. The AI for a game like this has infinite positions to check if you want to model the tabletop. That means it could never even consider every possibly position for a single move, let alone evalute it in context of an army moving.

If you think it's all that easy maybe you should try it

Anyway this is way off topic so I'll leave it at that!

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:45 pm

dave_r wrote:
The fourth as Phil has rightly guessed is Australia which was a continent when I was at school.
Not when I went to school - there are seven:

- Europe
- Asia
- North America
- South America
- Africa
- Antarctica
- Arctic*

Australia isn't in one of those

* some people don't count this as it is not actually a land mass.

Which is why it isn't the 7th continent, Australia is.

Still, at least you got the first letter right.

guthroth · Post by **guthroth** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:18 pm

Surely the 7th continent is Australasia not Australia. Australia is one of many nations that make up that continental land mass.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australasia

Pete

timmy1 · Post by **timmy1** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:47 pm

Martin / Karsten

I notice that Unknown has now risen to 98 results.

Hoping to help, I noticed that Mathew Collett is listed as 'Unknown' army for NiCon 2008. According to http://www.fieldofglory.com/nicon2008.html he used Khazar.

Don't know if that helps at all.

Regards
Tim

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:20 pm

The continental plates are:

African Plate
Antarctic Plate
Indo-Australian Plate
Eurasian Plate
North American Plate
South American Plate
Pacific Plate

So Australia, if it exists, is buried somewhere underneath India. Unlike the Pacific Islands which float on top ot the Pacific. That's probably wher New Zealand is.

Ghaznavid · Post by **Ghaznavid** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:31 am

timmy1 wrote:Martin / Karsten

I notice that Unknown has now risen to 98 results.

Hoping to help, I noticed that Mathew Collett is listed as 'Unknown' army for NiCon 2008. According to http://www.fieldofglory.com/nicon2008.html he used Khazar.

Don't know if that helps at all.

Every bit of information helps (and in the case of Nicon that was probably an oversight when mass inputting results, as their is no Khazar list in FoG, it's part of the Western Turkish list). The increase in "unknown" armies used is probably due to more tournament results having been entered, including several tournaments from Greece.

BTW, if anyone can provide info on the armies played by Neil Grant or George Dick at the Scottish Open 2009 we would appreciate that.

We also started working on the doubles, but it's a lot of work, so I stand by my ETA of mid-February (although bits and pieces may become available earlier), especially as Nik is clamouring for me to finish some Renaissance lists. So much to do, so little time.

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:15 am

Karsten,

Would it be worth having a page on the website listing all the missing information in one place with a link to send any updates to?

Ghaznavid · Post by **Ghaznavid** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:07 am

hammy wrote:Would it be worth having a page on the website listing all the missing information in one place with a link to send any updates to?

Probably ... I take it you volunteer to put that list together?

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:57 am

Ghaznavid wrote:
hammy wrote:Would it be worth having a page on the website listing all the missing information in one place with a link to send any updates to?
Probably ... I take it you volunteer to put that list together?

I can put together a list of tournaments you don't have results for. I rather hoped that getting a list of players with unknown armies would be a database thing.

Ghaznavid · Post by **Ghaznavid** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:21 pm

hammy wrote:
Ghaznavid wrote:
hammy wrote:Would it be worth having a page on the website listing all the missing information in one place with a link to send any updates to?
Probably ... I take it you volunteer to put that list together?
I can put together a list of tournaments you don't have results for. I rather hoped that getting a list of players with unknown armies would be a database thing.

Probably is, just need to find a elegant (read as needs not much work) solution to extract it in a usable format to this end.

timmy1 · Post by **timmy1** » Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:53 pm

Hammy

The QandD way is to pick on a player with known use of unknown armies (e.g. most of the Greeks, or Neil Grant from the above), find the tourney where not used, say 'Scottish Open 2009' and click on the unknown army. That gets you the full list while waiting for Karsten to write the realtime SQL and weblink (assuming Linux supports such constructs).

I know it is not classy - a bit cowboy really - but you will have all the data (and you might even be able to PM the umpires for which lists they used as most of them will be known to you I suspect).

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:48 am

timmy1 wrote:known use of unknown armies .

Known unknowns. Tim help yourself here PLEASE

NKE

Ghaznavid · Post by **Ghaznavid** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:16 am

timmy1 wrote:Hammy

The QandD way is to pick on a player with known use of unknown armies (e.g. most of the Greeks, or Neil Grant from the above), find the tourney where not used, say 'Scottish Open 2009' and click on the unknown army. That gets you the full list while waiting for Karsten to write the realtime SQL and weblink (assuming Linux supports such constructs).

I know it is not classy - a bit cowboy really - but you will have all the data (and you might even be able to PM the umpires for which lists they used as most of them will be known to you I suspect).

Actually I plugged that hole (twice by now, as I accidentally reintroduced it when I modified the code to handle double tournaments).

That page was of limited use anyway as it was not meant for such an usage. So among other things it also outputs non-playing umpires as players with an unknown army.

Below is the most current list of players for which we are missing the army they used. (Sorted by Tournament date.)

Neil Grant (Scottish Open 2009 - 2009-11-28)
George Dick (Scottish Open 2009 - 2009-11-28)
Georgios Pakos (Hellas 3rd Open 2009 - 2009-10-10)
Geoff Crick (MOAB 2009 - 25mm - 2009-10-03)
Mike Kelley (12th IWF World Individual Championships Alexandria 2009 - 2009-05-22)
David Cutner (Campaign 2009 - Indo-Greek - 2009-05-18)
Byron Emsen (Campaign 2009 - Rise of Rome - 2009-05-18)
Alan Cutner (Campaign 2009 - Fall of Rome - 2009-05-18)
Rafael Aulló (Avila 2009 - 2009-01-01)
Jesús Heliodoro (Avila 2009 - 2009-01-01)
Santiago Vilar (Avila 2009 - 2009-01-01)
Francisco Vinuesa (Avila 2009 - 2009-01-01)
Juan Miguel Morillas (Avila 2009 - 2009-01-01)
Luis Ezequiel (Avila 2009 - 2009-01-01)
Rafael Tortosa (Avila 2009 - 2009-01-01)
Carlos Serrano (Avila 2009 - 2009-01-01)
Enrique Lopez (Avila 2009 - 2009-01-01)
Oscar Ybañez (Avila 2009 - 2009-01-01)
Pedro Pérez (Avila 2009 - 2009-01-01)
Jacques (Avila 2009 - 2009-01-01)
Enrique Herrero (Avila 2009 - 2009-01-01)
Marcos Ivan (Avila 2009 - 2009-01-01)
Carlos Serrano (Estella 2008 - 2008-10-25)
Miguel Angel Engelmo (Estella 2008 - 2008-10-25)
Enrique Lopez (Estella 2008 - 2008-10-25)
José Ramos (Estella 2008 - 2008-10-25)
Daniel Fuente (Estella 2008 - 2008-10-25)
J Francisco Navarro (Estella 2008 - 2008-10-25)
Franky Montorio (Estella 2008 - 2008-10-25)
Félix Latasa (Estella 2008 - 2008-10-25)
Berni Sugus (Estella 2008 - 2008-10-25)
JM Moralejo (Estella 2008 - 2008-10-25)
Mateo Rodriguez (Estella 2008 - 2008-10-25)
Miguel Angel Cabello (Estella 2008 - 2008-10-25)
Richard Collins (Roll Call 2008 - 15mm - Immortal Fire - 2008-10-25)
Brian Holmes (Roll Call 2008 - 15mm - Immortal Fire - 2008-10-25)
Murray Evans (MOAB 2008 - 2008-10-04)
Mathew Collett (Nicon 2008 - 2008-05-31)
Jim Copeland (Schiltron 2008 - 2008-05-31)
Juan Andrés (Zaragoza 2008 - 2008-05-10)

If anyone happens to be able to fill in some of the missing army info we would be most grateful.

timmy1 · Post by **timmy1** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:18 pm

Phil

Once again, too subtle for a brain as small as mine. Can I ask from a translation from Northern into English?

'
Known unknowns. Tim help yourself here PLEASE

NKE
'

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:50 pm

timmy1 wrote:Phil

Once again, too subtle for a brain as small as mine. Can I ask from a translation from Northern into English?

'
Known unknowns. Tim help yourself here PLEASE

NKE
'

Its just a Donald Rumsfeld thing, I didn't understand it either, are there any unknown known armies?

timmy1 · Post by **timmy1** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:35 pm

Phil

This looks like a discuss over a beer at Britcon thing to me. Well me with a beer and you a soda water, as I know how abstemious (sp?) you are.

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:14 am

Ghaznavid wrote: Below is the most current list of players for which we are missing the army they used. (Sorted by Tournament date.)

Mike Kelley (12th IWF World Individual Championships Alexandria 2009 - 2009-05-22)

Ilkhanid Mongol