Guille's PzCorps Support Base - Multipurpose Icons and more.

[guille1434]

Because is a kind of "most wanted" unit, here is a preview of the Fw-200C, for the users here to evaluate and give some feedback. This icon is heavily based on the DMP one... What do you think about it? Of course te complete release will contain all the usual camo schemes...

EDIT: Original icons replaced by the second version, improved with the feedback of some of the forum members. Thanks to IceFlame, McGuba and Razz!

[Razz1]

I personally like to see 4 engines on planes.

When I first saw it, it looks a jagged like the lines on top and bottom are not straight for the fuselage.

[iceFlame]

Because is a kind of "most wanted" unit, here is a preview of the Fw-200C, for the users here to evaluate and give some feedback. This icon is heavily based on the DMP one... What do you think about it? Of course te complete release will contain all the usual camo schemes...

This is fantastic! I'm really happy to see the Condor taking flight! Thank you very much for putting in the time and effort to give us a much better icon.

I personally like to see 4 engines on planes.

When I first saw it, it looks a jagged like the lines on top and bottom are not straight for the fuselage.

I'm fine with the engines as the angle tends to obscure the fourth one, besides lots of other icons only show you three and a bit. As for the 'jagged' lines, I thought the same thing when I first saw it on the white background, but then I looked at it in-game and it seems to be less of an issue. (Although you could try adding a little bit of gray blur just in front of the yellow stripe and just above and below the fuselage. That would probably soften and streamline the look a bit).



What I would suggest is changing the shadow on the rear yellow line to match the one on the Heinkel. (Light on the top, darker on the bottom). That and I'd make the propeller caps yellow to match the 111. Also you might want to extend the shadow a bit. Maybe move the tail back a bit to make the length of the shadow appear longer than the 111's. Other than that, great job and thank you so much for working on the Condor!

P.S. I almost feel sorry for the merchant captains as they'll soon see this beauty swooping down on them... I hope they can swim.

[McGuba]

It really is! Many thanks for your work!

Though I had just about the same observations as iceFlame so I took the chance to retouch it a bit, I hope you do not mind:

Fw-200C.png (96.96 KiB) Viewed 4564 times

Now I think it is good enough to appear in the Battlefield: Europe mod. I just wonder how to protect it from the fighters of Coastal Command.

[iceFlame]

Though I had just about the same observations as iceFlame so I took the chance to retouch it a bit, I hope you do not mind:

That's it, you got it! The Condor is ready to take flight! Many thanks to both of you!

Now I think it is good enough to appear in the Battlefield: Europe mod. I just wonder how to protect it from the fighters of Coastal Command.

Can hardly wait to see it! Incidentally, for the historical OOB, KG40 was based on an airfield near Bordeaux for most of the war (from late June 1940 to the early autumn of '44). Thanks again for the touch-up. Spot on!

The first missions by 1./KG 40 were flown from Danish bases from 8 April 1940 against British ships. In late June, the Geschwader was transferred to Bordeaux-Merignac, which was to be the main base until it had to be evacuated in autumn 1944. Initially, from July 1940, the Condors simply added their small offensive weight to the Luftwaffe's assault on the UK, usually flying a wide sweep west of Cornwall and normally west of Ireland, dropping four bombs and heading for Norway, making the return trip a day or two later. At least two were shot down, although a pilot of No.87 Sqn, who unusually caught a Condor on the direct run to Plymouth, ran out of ammunition so continued to intercept on camera-gun film only.

From August the Condors got on with their real task and within two months had been credited with 90,000 tonnes of British shipping sunk. On 26 October they made headlines for the first time when Oberleutnant Bernhard Jope and crew found the 38,418 tonne (42,348 ton) Empress of Britain southwest of Donegal. Their bombs crippled the liner, which was then torpedoed by a U-boat. By 9 February 1941 1./KG 40's claim had reached 363,000 tonnes. By this time it had been joined by two further Staffeln, totalling a nominal 36 aircraft.

In early 1943 some Fw 200C-3s were modified to launch and guide the Hs 293A anti-ship missile, which was hung under the outer nacelles. The associated Kehl/Strassburg radio guidance installation was in the nose and front of the gondola. These missile carriers were designated Fw 200C-6, and the last few Condors to be built, in the winter of 1943-44, were Fw 200C-8s specially designed to carry the Hs 293 and with deeper outboard nacelles and a longer forward section to the gondola. Had such aircraft been available in 1940, the 'Scourge of the Atlantic' would have been much more deadly even than it was.

By late 1943, the main role of the Condor was to interdict Allied convoyes from Gibraltar, whose departure was usually reported by German agents in Spain. The aircraft would usually take off in fours, flying out to an initial point at sea level and in close formation. They would then split up, fan out and fly parallel tracks some 25 miles (40 km) apart, periodically climbing to 1,000 ft (300 m) and making a broad circuit while they searched for shipping using the FuG 200 Hohentwiel radar. When contact was made the aircraft would contact the others and all would climb to make their attacks, which were made from a minimum altitude of 9,000 ft (2700m).

Source: Century of Flight

[guille1434]

Well, as a result af a real cooperative effort, here is a very good icon for the Fw-200C... Tanks to Razz, IceFlame and McGuba for the feedback, which helped to obtain a vast improvement in this unit icon. So, enjoy it!
Thanks again to all...

[iceFlame]

Well, as a result af a real cooperative effort, here is a very good icon for the Fw-200C... Tanks to Razz, IceFlame and McGuba for the feedback, which helped to obtain a vast improvement in this unit icon. So, enjoy it!
Thanks again to all...

Great job guille! Without you none of this would have been possible... The Condor is bound to be a major upgrade to the Axis arsenal, so thanks very much for making it happen!

[guille1434]

Ice: Thanks for the nice words! It's nice to give something back to the community, from which I receive so much!
By the way, I was thinking that this unit can be made switchable as a level bomber (strategic) and tactical bomber... Like this:

Switch as level bomber: High spotting, lower naval attack, higher GD, carpet bombing capability...
Switch as tactical bomber: lower spotting, very good naval attack, lower GD, lower AD, no carpet bombing...

Uding LuftWFJ44 idea the icons can be differentiated by positioning the plane icon lower in its field in the case of being switched as tac bomber. Just an idea, but I like it...

[Horst]

I agree that a tactical/strategical mode switch would do good at least for each medium bomber, in particular most of the vanilla German strategic bombers which were more often used in tactical role anyway (what I have changed in my game).

Suggested planes (that I have currently in my game):
Do 17Z (although hardly useful in strategical mode with that tiny bomb load. Even a Bf 110 could carry more...)
Ju 88
He 111 (torpedo support)
Do 217
Ju 188
Do 215 (also hardly useful as a strategical bomber)

LeO 451

Wellington
Whitley

Piaggio P.108 (torpedo support, while one variant was in gunship configuration)

B-25B Mitchell
B-26C Marauder
B-24 Liberator (torpedo support)

Il-4 (torpedo support)

PS: Maybe just use the rule that any bomber with at least 2 tonnes of bomb load and without gunship configuration could also be used as strategical bomber.

[iceFlame]

By the way, I was thinking that this unit can be made switchable as a level bomber (strategic) and tactical bomber... Like this:

Switch as level bomber: High spotting, lower naval attack, higher GD, carpet bombing capability...
Switch as tactical bomber: lower spotting, very good naval attack, lower GD, lower AD, no carpet bombing...

Uding LuftWFJ44 idea the icons can be differentiated by positioning the plane icon lower in its field in the case of being switched as tac bomber. Just an idea, but I like it...

Yeah, great idea. I like it a lot. The versatility would be awesome and I think it fits nicely with the multi-purpose roles they were pressed into in real life. I'd be very happy to see a 'switchable' Condor.

[McGuba]

I like this idea, too, but I think it should be tested how the AI would use it, if it would use it at all. I think if we introduce a feature that is not used effectively by the AI than it would unbalance the game and the existing campaigns.

Any volunteers for testing and making feedback?

[asuser]

Hi Guille,

your version of the Fw 200 ist great! A missing unit was delivered...


I also like your WWI stuff...and it inspired me to make also some stuff for BNC...

[guille1434]

Hi Anders! Good to see you back in action!
I am glad you liked the Condor... We managed to make a fine looking and very needed unit. Also, I am happy that the WWI icons gave you some inspiration. As always was the case, you can use the stuff in any way you like.
The collaborative lanes are open, as they always were!

McGuba: Yes the way the AI uses this switch would be a problem... suppose they never use strategic bombing... But I was thinking to mod this switchable units in an eqp file when those units are used by the human player...

[iceFlame]

But I was thinking to mod this switchable units in an eqp file when those units are used by the human player...

Yeah, that's what I thought. The Strat/Tac switch would make the Condor such a useful unit that I'm sure it would quickly become a favorite.

Just thinking out loud, would we have to customize the second unit in the 'switch'? The reason I ask is Germany had a number of good tactical bombers, but very little in the way of four-engine strats. So this being the case, should the base numbers reflect the Condor's long-range (e.g. four engine) strat capabilities, with the switch numbers coming from an existing tac bomber?

Or, given that the Condor's primary success was as a naval raider, should the default be strong naval attack and then 'switch' to a new custom unit rating to reflect the strat option? I'd be interested in your thoughts on this. Please let me know.

[guille1434]

Or, given that the Condor's primary success was as a naval raider, should the default be strong naval attack and then 'switch' to a new custom unit rating to reflect the strat option? I'd be interested in your thoughts on this. Please let me know.

I agree with your idea, only that when switched to strategy bomber, I would give this unit low soft, hard and naval attack values, because it had a rather small bombload, and hitting a ship from high altitude was extremeluy difficult. See my rough idea about this unit stats some postings above.

[iceFlame]

I agree with your idea, only that when switched to strategy bomber, I would give this unit low soft, hard and naval attack values, because it had a rather small bombload, and hitting a ship from high altitude was extremeluy difficult. See my rough idea about this unit stats some postings above.

Agreed. And I like your earlier ideas for the stats as well... Can we expect a cool tactical dive for the switched icon?

[Horst]

I've recently lowered the naval attack values of strategic bombers because it's too unfair if the ships can't counter-fire. With increased experience and attack-heroes, it becomes too easy to sink every capital ship in no time.
Tactical bombers have only 75% bomb strength compared to strategical bombers in my game, because I felt that highly experienced tactical bombers, and especially with powerful attack-heroes, become too good at tank killing with bombs. Don't forget that strategic bombers attack like artillery, while tactical ones like tanks.
Anyway, what I've tested now with TB/SB switch that the AI doesn't seem to make use of the switch so far. Now the big question again, is this feature unfair like the recon-movement what the AI is unable to do either? I know at least that the AI is handling an AA/AT/ATY-switch fine enough. I'm still undecided, but anyone's own fun!
Currently, I've mainly added the TB/SB switch to light/medium bombers (<~11 tonnes empty weight) that can drop an adequate number of bombs for carpet bombing and are in no gunship configuration like the B-25H.

[guille1434]

Ice: Good idea! I think an icon in a moderate dive attitude would be a nice one to differentiate the "strategic" version from the tactical version of the Fw-200 (or any other suitable unit).

Horst: Totally agree with you, naval attack values of strategic bombers should be lowered (take for example the performance of the B-17 in early Pacific War, the Japanese said: well, even the B-17 can hit one ship from time to time). Maybe after researching about its warload configurations and sighting equipment, some models could have its Naval Attack value reduced to 0, ar better to a token value = 1 (just to model the "one hit from time to time" effect).

By the way: About your list of "switchable" Tac/strat bombers candidates: the B-25 and B-26 should be included as "torpedo launching capable" as they had that capability... I read that the British used the B-26 in a torpedo launching squadron in the Mediterranean with success.

[guille1434]

To give graphical support to the "Strategic/tactical bomber switchable units, here is a sample icon... I cannot decide if use the "moderate dive" icon (the present one) or another "level flight" icon, but positioned in a lower place in the 148x148 pix icon field (just like LuftWFJ44 did, to displey the tactical version of the bomber unit. What do you think?

The samples are:
1) The regular icon
2) The "diving to attack"
3) The "low flying tactical"

[iceFlame]

I suppose it's mainly personal preference. But for me I prefer the slight dive angle for several reasons.

1) It makes it easy to visually distinguish between the two icons.

2) It represents a quick transition from high altitude spotting mode to low altitude tactical approach. (Not that it's a dive bomber, but merely realigning its position for the bombing run).

3) (And I make no apologies for this) It looks cool.

Either way, thanks again for the great icons!