Something new and exciting?

[Aristides]

"It can be acts of nature, electrical faults but these are very rare."

Well, true. I meant closing a game rather than closing the programme.

[batesmotel]

I believe Mike (Triarius) had a computer melt down over the weekend, so is off line until he gets it fixed. He mentioned this in the Cup thread.

Chris

It's a real shame we cant replay finished games (an excellent learning tool) - the game was a while ago. The MF were with OffSp, I think. Yes, it's true that there was some broken ground in front of the hill. It's not the dice so much as when someone does something 'stupid/suicidal' and it pays off spectatcularly. Of course, perhaps they were being stupid or just felt like taking a gamble.
In fact, for me the main reason to make a thing cheat-proof is less to stop the (I think extremely rare) cheating but to allay our suspicians. Some players cry foul every time you thrown some good dice. And I myself sometimes play quite intuitively and like to take the odd gamble.

As for going through a whole turn, writing down all the rolls and then trying to come up with an order of attacks that suits them... i don't know which is sadder, that kind of obsession or the actual cheating. No, the cheating is sadder, because though they don't realise it, in the long run, aside from destroying people's enjoyment, it hurts the cheater far more than the cheatee(s).

I've been waiting on Mike for a couple of days.

[Supervark]

The final result for the contest is:

Burinus Agricolae WoTR York (10/34) defeats Supervark (44/41) at the end of turn 8
Points for BA 1+3+2=6
Points for SV 1+1 = 2

let me know if other inofs are needed.

thanks Super for the nice battle and friendly chat...
BA

Thanks Burinus for the lessons learned lol enjoyed our battle and the chat. Thabnks for recording this as I forgot to.

[FedeM]

As far as we know, the cheating works only in a way that you can handle the rolls of the units on the field in the order you like. It has a fixed seed, which means you will know in advance what numbers are rolled in the order they are. This in turn means that the slitherine server computer must have actually rolled the result for it to apply, and the player has to remember the order of the results to use them to his advantage. Suppose that it was MF Impact Foot that charged your pikes, Aristides. They are at 20/56 to win, and roughly half of those will cause a disrupt, so let's suppose it's a 10% chance to disrupt with each charge. 5 charges in a row, therefore, means that it's(10% * 10% = 1%, 1% * 10% = 0,1%, etc) a 0,001% chance for it to happen, or if you prefer, 1/100,000 chance of happening. Which means, it is probably never going to happen again in the history of FOG.

Not to mention it's possible that while your pikes were on open ground, your opponent actually charged from poor ground, and since both units engaged in the battle use the worse ground, it may have been that your pikes actually rolled 2 dice, hitting only on 6(since they lose their pike advantage POA if in poor ground, and get only 2 dice for being HF). Your opponent on the other hand rolls 3 dice(for being MF) and hits on 2 or more. This in turn makes it very likely for your pikes to be disrupted, and not that unlikely that they all get disrupted in a row.

If some of the MF charged from poor terrain, and some from open, it's a mix of this stuff, and while unlikely, it's certainly possible.

Lol Tiavals. That kind of cheaters, puting numbers down, etc should see a doctor.

Aristides, what I mentioned to Slitherine is that the turns replay problem allows you to:
A) if you make a charge with any unit and it goes bad you can make the replay and do not make the charge. That also allows to try things as yr Pike example. Go for a suicidal charge and if it goes well leave it as it is. Could be an option if you want to outnumber an enemy unit etc.
If the suicidal charge goes bad.....replay and you do not do it.

B) you suddenly noticed that you made a bad move and some Bg ended for example showing their us to the enemy; you can restart and change the move.

Cheers
B)

[batesmotel]

B) is allowed with Undo assuming that the BG that moved didn't shoot or impact enemy. It is only in games where Fog of War is enabled that undo is pretty much broken so you would need to do the restart to change a specific move. Seems to me that case B) is a game bug (when using Fog of War) rather than cheating .

Chris

Lol Tiavals. That kind of cheaters, puting numbers down, etc should see a doctor.

Aristides, what I mentioned to Slitherine is that the turns replay problem allows you to:
A) if you make a charge with any unit and it goes bad you can make the replay and do not make the charge. That also allows to try things as yr Pike example. Go for a suicidal charge and if it goes well leave it as it is. Could be an option if you want to outnumber an enemy unit etc.
If the suicidal charge goes bad.....replay and you do not do it.

B) you suddenly noticed that you made a bad move and some Bg ended for example showing their us to the enemy; you can restart and change the move.

Cheers
B)

[FedeM]

Thnks for clarifying point B batesmotel. I always try to find games with FOW on and alwys thought that undo was only for single player. They should fix it then.

Cheers

[ericdoman1]

Hi gents

Here is an update.

Re: Server message - multiple turn downloads

by iainmcneil » 21 Mar 2012 09:37

Hi Eric

We're not going to specify how it works for obvious reasons as it will encourage people to try and find work arounds (not that we can think of any!). We're not going to publish any info about other players. The system has proved very successful on the other game it was trialled on. The number of turns redownloaded dropped to almost zero. We're not planning to make any changes for now and when you get used to it you wont even notice it. I suggest you all just give it a try There isn't really much more to say for now. It doesn't really matter why you are redownloading turns - it gives an unfair advantage so has to be stopped. I understand this may cause issues for a very tiny minority (nobody so far in our experience but its theoretically possible), but for the vast majority this is the only fair course of action.

Any bugs should continue to be reported but may not be fixed until we get the new team up to speed with the engine.

Cheers

Iain

Based on that is it OK if we only post comments based on this comp please in this link.

The above are very good pointers so go to FOG-Digital, Tech Support and Server Messenger-Multiple Downloads.

Cheers

Eric

[Tiavals]

My game with gazxtrix has continued, but we're still at turn 4. So progress is slow, but at least progress is made.

[ericdoman1]

Cheers T

[Aristides]

I believe Mike (Triarius) had a computer melt down over the weekend, so is off line until he gets it fixed. He mentioned this in the Cup thread.

[/quote]

Thanks for the heads up... Hope he gets it up and running - losing a computer can be a major drag...

[todd645]

12 turns for me if I'm not too late for the voting.

Todd

[ericdoman1]

Hi Todd

nah not late. but looking like a 12 turns.

This I feel should be the max number of turns.

8 x 12, 3 x 11, 3 x 10, 8 x neutral/abstaining/not read this yet

[JonPowles]

I vote for 10. Was an interesting dimension to the original idea

[ericdoman1]

Hi T

I thought so to, again I would like to know on average, ON AVERAGE, not 1 game in 100 LOL. When do players games finish.

The idea with the the 10 turns was for players to be a bit more aggressive in order to score points and again for me most of my games finish before or on 10 turns.

Looking at the results so far. There isn't much of a difference between armies having larger forces and winning. Another reason for the 10 turns. Horde armies may well struggle to get a result in 10 turns. I suppose that is another skill factor you have to take into consideration, not only the build of an army but you only have 10 turns.

8 x 12, 3 x 11, 4 x 10, 7 x neutral/abstaining/not read this yet

OK looking like 11 turns now.

Two more games to finish and then the next round will begin.

I have worked out who is playing whom at the moment but there will prob be a bit of a reshuffle.

I am going to use the following simple format to decide the next round games

Example:

Martog 2 (45/41) vs 6 (22/56) batesmotel

So batesmotel will have - Batesmotel 6 (23). The 23 signifies the difference in BPS killed. Couldn't think of anything else, unless other players have a simpler suggestion.

As many of you may know the League of Extraordianry Gentleman is on hold. However a few of us will be starting a temporary league, based on the exact format of LOEG. This will begin May 1st, we hope. Therefore trying to finish this little comp before temp league begins will be excellent.

I believe most of you know of the LOEG. If you go to Slitherine website, FOG-Digital and then LOEG that will inform you of the format.

Cheers

Eric

[rexhurley]

Your choice on turn limit Eric its no different to trying to get in that bottom half turn on a 2.5hr game in a TT comp, some will always drag an play for a winnign draw others of us will be all guts and glory/no glory

[ericdoman1]

Hi Rex

Exactly

Again that was the general, idea behind this. In TT games you have limited time. When both players decide to attack you will get a decent result. The TT scoring system is complicated but a summary both players begin on 10 points each. A chart is used to determine additional points they would receive based on bps inflicted and received. If a player has routed the army of his opponent he would receive an additional 5 pts. The max score in tt is 25 vs 0. In the pc game the equivalent would be something like 100% vs 10%. SO it is reasonably rare.

Also in the tt game if you do wish to skirmish, then it is very rare you will have a big win. And if neither player really wishes to fight due to terrain well it would remain a 10 vs 10.

As for my choice I will go with 10 turns. Although I am not playing at the mo. who knows I could play somebdoy who could set up in an impregnable defensive position and be quite happy to receive a 1 vs 1.

I am thinking somewhere down the line. If this is successful. To not only have top 3 spot for individuals but maybe a team event as well, all incorporated. Teams of 3 have always worked. We would need something like 24, 30, 36 players though and the teams would have to be of roughly equal strength.

There's more. If it got really big, maybe we coud have 3 or more seperate comps, specific time periods and a fantasty wargamers comp mixed in. Just for fun. You know each player would have X amount of money to spend on say 6 players and so on.

It had been used ina comp in the UK so again just a bit more fun.

I used to paly in quite a lot of comps when I lived in London, it was easy for me to reach various venues but here in Wales it is a lot more difficult and so I am playing this quite a lot now.

[ericdoman1]

8 x 12, 3 x 11, 5 x 10, 6 x neutral/abstaining/not read this yet

Well a quick calculation, even if all remaining votes choose 12 turns, the average will be 11.

Round 2 will have 11 turns

[ericdoman1]

We have 2 more results to come in.

SO come on guys

Also remember round 2 is crowded, both players choose crowded.

Probably means in some games, you might be able to spot a tree:)

[Aristides]

Perhaps we should defer my game with mike due to his computer problems?

[ericdoman1]

Not sure what to do. Played Tiavals recently so I am guessing that Gazxtrix has a problem as well.

I know Mike had a game on the 18th March

Could Tiavals, Gazxtrix and Mike get back to me please.

If 2 of you are having a problem. Is it OK if we allow the other 2 players to play so we can continue with round 2.

I haven't been contacted myself so I don't know what is happening.

Daniel or Tiavals (a gut feeling), could you pm one another and issue a challenge to play please. I know both of you are very quick so we may be able to get the ball rolling again.

If I have made a mistake with ref to this call, apologies but I have to consider the remaining 18 players.

Cheers

Eric