Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris please)

[rkr1958]

I think feature of airborne always have 1 supply is a little odd by its nature.
They can survive (and get reinforcements) for years with no visible supply source.
Not like it affects gameplay, but on what it supposed to be based?

Reinforcement and supply by air.

[richardsd]

ok, now it starts to get interesting

Axis rolls on





in the North we have done what we can for Lennigrad, hopefully we have given it a chance to last till winter



in the South we begin the real execution of operation string, Morris will have to make a decisiosn about where the blob goes



and Europe after our quarterback sneak!

[richardsd]

August begins, time is moving on

the Axis continue their drive into the motherland



in the south he splits,



we evacuate the 'good' troops around Lennigrad



in the South we give ground as planned and put up a screen of sorts



in the Atlantic our sweeps find a SUB and our bombing continues, makes a small dent in the PP's he is getting from Russia

[pk867]

The map shown is for a previous version and not the final version.

I guess you are playing a previous started game using v2.10 final to play? The Caucasus area shown is incorrect. be sure to check the hexes since some of the terrain has been changed to allow rail line changes through the mountains.

[richardsd]

The map shown is for a previous version and not the final version.

I guess you are playing a previous started game using v2.10 final to play? The Caucasus area shown is incorrect. be sure to check the hexes since some of the terrain has been changed to allow rail line changes through the mountains.

hmm I have all patches loaded - and the new combat calculator which I have been trying in 44 hot seat - so far pretty good although the defence seems to come off a little worse

what file do you think is missing?

[pk867]

Was this game started with the latest v2.10 that is locked down? Or was this game started with a previous version and just patched?

If it is a previous that is just patched the hexes with not show the correct terrain. The unit panel will, but not the map.

To visually see the differences, start a new hotseat game and you will see what I mean.

The map in Russia for the final version that is locked down has changes around Leningrad and in the Caucasus theater.

[jjdenver]

Can you explain the "string defense" that you are trying again? I think I'm familiar w/ the various defensive concepts and possibilities but I'm not able to effectively tag your term "string defense" to one of them. Is it just run away then give him 2 defensive fronts to choose between once his blob reaches Rostov?

Seeing Morris' panzers run across all of southern Russia without losing any strength points even when he attacks just makes me sad. The Panzers even in their best months of 1941 took heavy vehicle and personnel losses both based on distance of the advance and combat along the way. To see his panzers roll through Rostov without losses is absurd. That just looks broken. I guess you can argue that the game is not broken, but something is broken when the panzers can drive that far that fast, make attacks, and lose almost no strength while assaulting cities.

[Plaid]

That just looks broken. I guess you can argue that the game is not broken, but something is broken when the panzers can drive that far that fast, make attacks, and lose almost no strength while assaulting cities.

If noone fight them they lose no strength, looks clear to me.

[Cybvep]

Yes, here the player clearly wants to defend deeper in Russia. This might be a good idea against Morris Barbarossa, although it is not working that well ATM. Stalingrad will fall and there are no railways and no large unit concentrations nearby. Morris has 3 turns of guaranteed fair weather and it is likely that the Russians will lose many units near Maikop.

[richardsd]

That just looks broken. I guess you can argue that the game is not broken, but something is broken when the panzers can drive that far that fast, make attacks, and lose almost no strength while assaulting cities.

If noone fight them they lose no strength, looks clear to me.

You can't fight them and have some Russians left - I know you believe you can, but I can't without playing in a way that I don't feel is appropriate!

I haven't quite got my retreating right and Morris is taking no casualties mostly becuase the Russian scientists have achieved nothing, which is actually pretty annoying

[richardsd]

Can you explain the "string defense" that you are trying again? I think I'm familiar w/ the various defensive concepts and possibilities but I'm not able to effectively tag your term "string defense" to one of them. Is it just run away then give him 2 defensive fronts to choose between once his blob reaches Rostov?

Seeing Morris' panzers run across all of southern Russia without losing any strength points even when he attacks just makes me sad. The Panzers even in their best months of 1941 took heavy vehicle and personnel losses both based on distance of the advance and combat along the way. To see his panzers roll through Rostov without losses is absurd. That just looks broken. I guess you can argue that the game is not broken, but something is broken when the panzers can drive that far that fast, make attacks, and lose almost no strength while assaulting cities.

I will explain the string defense in a couple of turns, its the critical point now and I post real time so we don't any lose ips!

[jjdenver]

That just looks broken. I guess you can argue that the game is not broken, but something is broken when the panzers can drive that far that fast, make attacks, and lose almost no strength while assaulting cities.

If noone fight them they lose no strength, looks clear to me.

They are fighting though - I can see the "red circles" on the replay to show there is combat in cities that they advance into. For example there was combat at Dnepropetrovsk, Stalino, Kharkov, Rostov and probably others that I'm not seeing. No losses to panzers at any of those assaults. Finally it looks like 2 assaults by panzers vs Stalingrad lost a total of 1 panzer strength point and 1 strength point was also lost south of Rostov - that's all the losses I see by panzers in that entire huge advance that is already farther than the Germans went in all of 1941 - driving tanks across 100's of kilometers of bad roads past reasonable supply limits and assaulting each city they get to. It's silly right? You may think the game is balanced (I'm not sure whether it is or not) but the combat in 41 at least (and probably 42 based on other AAR's) in Russia is just goofy looking with current readiness levels of the Red Army and what seems to be their inability to recover from the sorts of huges losses that the Soviets were historically able to absorb and come back punching in 41 and 42.

[richardsd]

ok. last August turn - two more guarenteed fine weather turns

Axis roll on and touch Moscow!





Stalin is furious and orders the death of the Moscow invaders (wow, thats a whole 2 land units kliied)



in the south we continue the string defence



in Europe bombing continues - small victories

[Plaid]

You can't fight them and have some Russians left - I know you believe you can, but I can't without playing in a way that I don't feel is appropriate!

What currently happening in this game (stalingrad lost in 1941, germans at direct contact with Moscow in august) already brings the word inappropritate to whole new level.

[richardsd]

You can't fight them and have some Russians left - I know you believe you can, but I can't without playing in a way that I don't feel is appropriate!

What currently happening in this game (stalingrad lost in 1941, germans at direct contact with Moscow in august) already brings the word inappropritate to whole new level.

you can't defend everywhere, hopefully the Axis won't take Lennigard, Sevastapol, Moscow, Stalingrad and Maikop before winter - if they do then my plan won't have worked (although this is my first time with this plan and I didn't get my pre barbarrosa building/placing right )

on the other hand if they have taken some, then we shall see what happens when we get some more friends involved

[rkr1958]

You can't fight them and have some Russians left - I know you believe you can, but I can't without playing in a way that I don't feel is appropriate!

What currently happening in this game (stalingrad lost in 1941, germans at direct contact with Moscow in august) already brings the word inappropritate to whole new level.

you can't defend everywhere, hopefully the Axis won't take Lennigard, Sevastapol, Moscow, Stalingrad and Maikop before winter - if they do then my plan won't have worked (although this is my first time with this plan and I didn't get my pre barbarrosa building/placing right )

on the other hand if they have taken some, then we shall see what happens when we get some more friends involved

Personally, I don't think your situation in Russia looks all that dire. All of Morris' strength appears to be in the south (Caucuses), which looks to me you're be able to stop him by winter. He has two more turns of guarantee fair weather and he doesn't appear to have the strength to take Moscow or Leningrad. Barring normal luck with the weather you should hold on to those cities for now. And, if he keeps attacking through October and November then his will suffer low efficiency and should be ripe for a focused counterattack during the severe winter. He also has to be burning boatloads of oil; so I would think his primary focus in 1942 will be on the oil fields in the Caucuses. Personally, I think you're in fairly good shape in Russia; but that doesn't mean you're out of danger. Like it should be, 1942 is going to be a critical year. I would put a high priority on making sure the Murmansk convoys get through and try to nip away out him with the Western allies where I could; especially if it forced him to burn oil.

[richardsd]

Its still a little early to talk about my plan in detail, but I agree with everything you say

sadly the Murmansk convoys have totalled 56 pp's spawned I think and Russian labs are truly awful

my sniping is burnig a little oil in Europe, 1 FTR intercept per turn is something plus synth plant is now in yellow

[richardsd]

sooooo, the Morris changes his stripes?

the Axis close on Moscow and shift focus to Omsk?



can it be he has given up on the oil for 41?



we strengthen Moscow and offer a few scraps in the South - will he take the bait?





still, some positive news somewhere, very pretty colours in Europe

[richardsd]

guaranteed fine weather is over - now its time to wait and see what the weather gods deliver!

The Axis take a mixed set of options, mostly defensive?

In the south they bug out from the caucuses - nice bit of oil burnt to do that and mop up our weak GAR's - nice bit of oil burnt to do that too



suspect they really want to cut of the south (if anything) as they can't reach targets in one turn



in the north it looks like prepare for winter?



elsewhere in Europe the bombing does its job, oil in red, two FTR's intercepted that turn... burn that oil



we start our phase two efforts with some tinkering (some we got wrong )





off Norway we find a sub that does 2 steps to our transport



we think its a fair exchange



depending on the weather Sevastapol and Lennigrad could hold for a few turns and inflict some damage, oil is off the table but Moscow could still be a target

[Plaid]

By the way you can also bomb this mine in Sweden (most people forget about this one).