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Question: Is there any point on having a 0-0 general?
Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:15 pm
by Kaede11
What's the difference between having a 0-0 general and having no general at all?
Re: Question: Is there any point on having a 0-0 general?
Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:11 pm
by travling_canuck
If you're fighting against an army which has a General and you don't, your troops suffer a penalty. So a 0-0 General avoids this and inflicts the penalty against any leaderless enemy you fight.
Only learned this myself a few weeks ago on this Forum. I'm afraid I forget what the penalty was.
PS If you've ever had a Draw result and lost a General during the battle, and then watched your army get absolutely smoked in the follow up battle, this is likely the reason.
Re: Question: Is there any point on having a 0-0 general?
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:47 am
by Blathergut
they also help in a seige
Re: Question: Is there any point on having a 0-0 general?
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:40 am
by ess1
Had a battle with my 2 Gen, of 6 draws, in very difficult terrain in MP yesterday. Wonder what the record is?
Re: Question: Is there any point on having a 0-0 general?
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:46 pm
by Soar
Even 0-0's give a bonus to siege rolls, and having a general is required to use the Retaliate order. If you have the Persia DLC some regional decisions related to armies only work on armies with generals.
travling_canuck wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:11 pm
If you're fighting against an army which has a General and you don't, your troops suffer a penalty. So a 0-0 General avoids this and inflicts the penalty against any leaderless enemy you fight.
Only learned this myself a few weeks ago on this Forum. I'm afraid I forget what the penalty was.
News to me, nobody ever mentioned anything about this in any previous discussion I've seen on the subject.
Re: Question: Is there any point on having a 0-0 general?
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:04 pm
by USGrant1962
Soar wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:46 pm
Even 0-0's give a bonus to siege rolls, and having a general is required to use the Retaliate order. If you have the Persia DLC some regional decisions related to armies only work on armies with generals.
travling_canuck wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:11 pm
If you're fighting against an army which has a General and you don't, your troops suffer a penalty. So a 0-0 General avoids this and inflicts the penalty against any leaderless enemy you fight.
Only learned this myself a few weeks ago on this Forum. I'm afraid I forget what the penalty was.
News to me, nobody ever mentioned anything about this in any previous discussion I've seen on the subject.
I believe all the regional decisions that use a general require at least a +1 total rating, so you can't use 0-0s for that.
Re: Question: Is there any point on having a 0-0 general?
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:29 pm
by Surt
travling_canuck wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:11 pm
Only learned this myself a few weeks ago on this Forum. I'm afraid I forget what the penalty was.
Do you have a link to that?
Re: Question: Is there any point on having a 0-0 general?
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:12 pm
by Kaede11
So basically, having a 0-0 general is useful for sieges and to avoid a penalty against other armies with generals.
Ok, got it.
Re: Question: Is there any point on having a 0-0 general?
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:33 am
by travling_canuck
Surt wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:29 pm
travling_canuck wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:11 pm
Only learned this myself a few weeks ago on this Forum. I'm afraid I forget what the penalty was.
Do you have a link to that?
Tracked it down. It was from here:
viewtopic.php?f=534&t=92878#p851891
Re: Question: Is there any point on having a 0-0 general?
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:33 am
by Surt
Re: Question: Is there any point on having a 0-0 general?
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:00 pm
by Soar
That's rather vague. It's possible that it's referring to playing out battles in FOG2, I am not as familiar with the mechanics there, but in FOGE combat resolution I'm pretty sure it makes no difference.
Re: Question: Is there any point on having a 0-0 general?
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:04 pm
by travling_canuck
Soar wrote: ↑Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:00 pm
That's rather vague. It's possible that it's referring to playing out battles in FOG2, I am not as familiar with the mechanics there, but in FOGE combat resolution I'm pretty sure it makes no difference.
So now I've unlearned something new! Thanks!
Re: Question: Is there any point on having a 0-0 general?
Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:33 am
by Pocus
Confirmed, there is no penalty in battle in Empires if no generals ...
Now I think about it ...
Re: Question: Is there any point on having a 0-0 general?
Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:37 am
by Surt
Pocus wrote: ↑Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:33 am
Confirmed, there is no penalty in battle in Empires if no generals ...
Now I think about it ...
At least then it will make sense to use that a 0-0.
Re: Question: Is there any point on having a 0-0 general?
Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:07 pm
by travling_canuck
Surt wrote: ↑Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:37 am
Pocus wrote: ↑Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:33 am
Confirmed, there is no penalty in battle in Empires if no generals ...
Now I think about it ...
At least then it will make sense to use that a 0-0.
It's the 0-0 Cowards, Pampereds, Spendthrifts that I want a reason to use! Oh man, do I really want to put him in charge, or not …
Speaking of which, I don't expect this would be possible in the engine, but I would really love it if General characteristics were hidden until triggered. So you don't know their Attack score until they lead an attack, don't know their Defence score until they lead a defence, don't know their other attributes until the first time a relevant event triggers the bonus/penalty.
I know it would be a lot of work, but if this is something that could be worked into the engine for the next iteration of the game, I think it would add a lot of colour to gameplay, and really help with the immersive, story-telling feeling of managing your empire.
Re: Question: Is there any point on having a 0-0 general?
Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:00 pm
by Kaede11
travling_canuck wrote: ↑Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:07 pm
Surt wrote: ↑Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:37 am
Pocus wrote: ↑Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:33 am
Confirmed, there is no penalty in battle in Empires if no generals ...
Now I think about it ...
At least then it will make sense to use that a 0-0.
It's the 0-0 Cowards, Pampereds, Spendthrifts that I want a reason to use! Oh man, do I really want to put him in charge, or not …
Speaking of which, I don't expect this would be possible in the engine, but I would really love it if General characteristics were hidden until triggered. So you don't know their Attack score until they lead an attack, don't know their Defence score until they lead a defence, don't know their other attributes until the first time a relevant event triggers the bonus/penalty.
I know it would be a lot of work, but if this is something that could be worked into the engine for the next iteration of the game, I think it would add a lot of colour to gameplay, and really help with the immersive, story-telling feeling of managing your empire.
I'm not sure I would like this, to be honest.
I would like having the possibility of general characteristics changing during the game, but hidden characteristics could be really punishing for the player. Maybe keeping enemy characteristics hidden until encountered but... still I would prefer seeing the numbers.