Slitherine

Nik, you changed the special instructions to say:

 No more than one-third of the army’s Roumeliot Timariot battle groups can be superior.
 No more than one-third of the army’s Anatolian Timariot battle groups can be superior.

In my view this is too stringent because it means that you must have 5 BGs of Timariots to get 1 BG of Superior Rumeliots.

i.e.

1 BG Superior Rumeliot
2 BG Average Rumeliot
2 BG Average Anatolian

(since you can only have 1 less Anatolian than Rumeliot)

I suggest that we stick to the old version:

 No more than one-third of the army’s Timariot battle groups can be superior.

This allows you to have

1 BG Superior Rumeliot
1 BG Average Rumeliot
1 BG Average Anatolian

This hardly seems excessively generous to me.

BTW I assume it isn't intentional that the Later Ottomans have more HA sipahis than the Early, so I have changed it to 0-6.

It was deliberate.

I am worried about too many superior carbine shooters (in addition, we must remember, to the Qapu Khalqi) making the army too effective. We have previously discussed about the undesirability of Ottomans being the super army as they may be in FoG:AM.

With the unmodified Death Role in FoG:R superior and elite shooter are, IMO, very dangerous in terms of base losses, and the game has a lot of 6 and 4 base BGs.

nikgaukroger wrote:It was deliberate.

I am worried about too many superior carbine shooters (in addition, we must remember, to the Qapu Khalqi) making the army too effective. We have previously discussed about the undesirability of Ottomans being the super army as they may be in FoG:AM.

With the unmodified Death Role in FoG:R superior and elite shooter are, IMO, very dangerous in terms of base losses, and the game has a lot of 6 and 4 base BGs.

Hmm, well OK.

Bows need a critical mass to get death roll chances, but firearms are linear.

Carbines hit most things on a 5-6.

An Elite Sipahi base has (1/3 + 2/6*1/3) * 1/6 = 8/108 lethality (chance of causing a base loss)
Superior has (1/3 + 1/6*1/3)*1/6 = 7/108
Average has(1/3 + 0/6*1/3)*1/6 =6/108
Poor has (1/6 + 1/6*1/3)*1/6 =4/108

On raw lethality, the Elites are 33% better than than the Average, the Superiors 17%.

Elite cost 22, Superior cost 19, Average cost 12, Poor cost 9

Lethality per army point spent
Elite 0.34%
Superior 0.34%
Average 0.46%
Poor 0.41%

Imperialist musketeer lethality is 6/108 and, costing 8 points in mixed BG, lethality is 0.69% per point.
And the noblest Qapu Khalqi dies as easily to shot as the timid Timariot.

Just played a game of Later Ottoman vs TYW German.

Ottomans lost fairly handily.

As Mike says, tis the death rolls that are the killer.

I don't think we need fear the Ottomans being too good now.

(So maybe the Superior Timariot rules could be a bit more lenient).

rbodleyscott wrote:Just played a game of Later Ottoman vs TYW German.

Ottomans lost fairly handily.

As Mike says, tis the death rolls that are the killer.

I don't think we need fear the Ottomans being too good now.

(So maybe the Superior Timariot rules could be a bit more lenient).

As you have seen them on the table top in their new format (I assume you used that), I will leave it up to your judgement as to what is most appropriate and to make the relevant changes when I next zap you a draft.

nikgaukroger wrote:

rbodleyscott wrote:Just played a game of Later Ottoman vs TYW German.

Ottomans lost fairly handily.

As Mike says, tis the death rolls that are the killer.

I don't think we need fear the Ottomans being too good now.

(So maybe the Superior Timariot rules could be a bit more lenient).

As you have seen them on the table top in their new format (I assume you used that), I will leave it up to your judgement as to what is most appropriate and to make the relevant changes when I next zap you a draft.

I had 3 BGs of Elites, and they did not do too well, because of the Death Rolls.

As Mike says, I don't think Superior/Elite Carbines are that Super.


However, given the increase in the number of Qapu khalki since the Beta list, I suppose it is probably best to leave it as you have it.