Slitherine

but they are pursuing, they have no option but to charge enemy in their way

zoltan wrote:

grahambriggs wrote: I'd claim I'm going straight forward so no wheel and my first contact (note it doesn't say first legal contact) is the side edge of the front base of the column, which I'm touching to start with.

Surely in this context the word 'contact' implies a change in state? i.e. going from a state of bases not touching to a state of bases touching, achieved by one of the bases moving (however small the movement is)? Otherwise all situations where opponents were in side edge to side edge contact would become 'deemed' charges/pursuits without the need for the charger/pursuer to move?

Oh OK. Say the second base in the column then, or the third.

Otherwise all situations where opponents were in side edge to side edge contact would become 'deemed' charges/pursuits without the need for the charger/pursuer to move

No, you can only charge someone who you can make legal contact with. It's a legal charge because the front edge of the charging BG hits the front corner of the kinked base. If the red column had been straight it wouldn't be possible to make legal contact with it as side edge to side edge doesn't count as legal contact.

grahambriggs wrote:

zoltan wrote:

grahambriggs wrote: I'd claim I'm going straight forward so no wheel and my first contact (note it doesn't say first legal contact) is the side edge of the front base of the column, which I'm touching to start with.

Surely in this context the word 'contact' implies a change in state? i.e. going from a state of bases not touching to a state of bases touching, achieved by one of the bases moving (however small the movement is)? Otherwise all situations where opponents were in side edge to side edge contact would become 'deemed' charges/pursuits without the need for the charger/pursuer to move?

Oh OK. Say the second base in the column then, or the third.

Otherwise all situations where opponents were in side edge to side edge contact would become 'deemed' charges/pursuits without the need for the charger/pursuer to move

No, you can only charge someone who you can make legal contact with. It's a legal charge because the front edge of the charging BG hits the front corner of the kinked base. If the red column had been straight it wouldn't be possible to make legal contact with it as side edge to side edge doesn't count as legal contact.

Because under the definition of legal contact, you must hit the enemy with either your front corner or front edge. You are claiming contact with the side edge which is not a valid legal charge contact.

Of course you could wheel, but .....

dave_r wrote: Because under the definition of legal contact, you must hit the enemy with either your front corner or front edge. You are claiming contact with the side edge which is not a valid legal charge contact.

Of course you could wheel, but .....

No, I'm claiming that I am contacting an enemy front corner with my front edge. It doesn't matter that it is not the first part of the BG that I touch. You can get similar when the enemy has stepped forwards and you're charging a file that did not step forwards. So say:

AAAA
SSAA
SSCC
BB
BB

AAAAAA are bases of an enemy BG facing down the page. SSSS, BBBB and CC are friendly BGs facing up the page. They are all lined up with no gaps. SSSS routs in the enemy turn leaving a gap (represented by GGGG):

AAAA
GGAA
GGCC
BB
BB

In my impact phase BBBB charges, slides down the edge of those two AA bases that are stepped forward and hits the ones that fought GG. That's a legal charge because I make a legal contact with the two AA bases at the back - in this case front edge to front edge to front edge. i.e. the _first_ contact doesn't have to be legal, but there has to be _a_ legal contact.

In order to be a flank charge though the first part of the enemy battlegroup contacted must be the side edge or rear corner of one of it's bases, so in my new example this does not count as a flank charge (first contact is the corner of B with the corner of the stepped forward base of A).

Where two BGs are in side edge to side edge contact they must by definition be parrallel with each other. If they are parrallel I don't see how one BG can move forward and expect to hit the other BG without doing a wheel. It will simply run along the side edge of the opponent. It will only stop when it expends all its move distance or smacks into something in its path.

Anyone else bored with this or is it just me?

Didn't England play well tonight - another well deserved victory - let's hope our next trip to the Southern Hemisphere will be better than the last.

zoltan wrote:Where two BGs are in side edge to side edge contact they must by definition be parrallel with each other. .

A kinked column exists in a parrallel universe to itself and everything else so cannot be contacted in the flank.

petedalby wrote:Anyone else bored with this or is it just me?

No. I've still got lots of popcorn left.

Ok , one last comment. The fact that this example shows blue hitting the 4th red base in the front corner does not matter. If red were in a straight file engaged to the front. and blue was not in contact (shifted left a gnat's todger??) Then it could charge the 4th base even if it were not a valid flank charge but could not charge bases 1 or 2 unless a valid flank. The fact that it hits the 4th base on the front corner is irrelevant, it is hitting the side of the BG and would be treated as frontal or flank depending on start position.

The only problem i have with this one is that 'side to side' contact is already spelled out in the rules. I could play it either way--it would still be fun.

I guess, since this is a valid pursuit starting in a flank position to red, I'd have to vote that it is a flank charge on red. But I wouldn't allow Blue to declare a charge on Red.

I do find it interesting the RBS read this thread and failed to comment on the basic question. It is a doozy.

To speak is to convict oneself. He retains the right to remain silent.

Ok Lawrence, your OP has been clearly answered:

1. Blue has a frontal impact on Red (not a flank)
2. If impact is fought in Red's turn Red will conform to Blue's front

Can we move on?