Slitherine

1ang wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:47 pm hi everyone, in the mod there is naval unit as a support for: refueling, ammunition and repairs

Not that I know of... but McGuba has something like this to Malta, i.e. to a fixed hex location but not flexible ships to flexible hexes (i.e. other ships anywhere).

In this mod, when a supply ship reaches Malta, more planes are being triggered...

PeteMitchell wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:51 pm

1ang wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:47 pm hi everyone, in the mod there is naval unit as a support for: refueling, ammunition and repairs

Not that I know of... but McGuba has something like this to Malta, i.e. to a fixed hex location but not flexible ships to flexible hexes (i.e. other ships anywhere).

In this mod, when a supply ship reaches Malta, more planes are being triggered...

hello PeteMitchell,thanks for the information happy Sunday

McGuba wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:32 am

guille1434 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:04 am I had some ideas about how to (possibly?) improve or at least make more fun your already very perfected mod, and I would like to know your thoughts about them...

Yes, most of these are already in for some time: 100 prestige points penalty for Allied bombing of each of the German cities in a turn up to a maximum of 300 (also if the Soviets manage to bomb Berlin in 1941 as in reality), "night" fighters for both Axis and Allies, etc. Railway gun is considered to be a part of the Karl siege gun. This unit is supposed to contain all the heavy siege artillery of which there were several different calibers ranging from 15 to 42-48 cm. At this unit scale it would not make a lot of sense to have a different unit for each of them because there were too few of these in reality. In this mod a full strength towed artillery unit represents 1,000 actual guns. There were much less siege guns so even the Karl unit is understrength and cannot be fully replenished. Thanks anyway, much appreciated!

Maybe it is time for you to finally try the mod and see those nice unit icons in action that you made for it?

Thanks Mac and Pete for your detailed answers...

It is a great thing that the struggle for the night skies over occupied Europe is treated in a complete way (i.e. not just the bombing attacks, but also the specialized units that put a defense against them, like night fighters, radars, flak units). Looking to the mod's equipment file and unit graphic folder, I just could pinpoint the Ju-88 night fighter unit... Aren´t there some N.F. Bf-110 out there?

About the 1000 actual units for one in-game unit rule, I think it is a good measure to balance the things out... And it is not that I pretent to rienvent the wheel here, as the mod, as we all can read here is one of the most realistic and well balanced in the PzCorps "universe". But anyway here are some thoughts:

- For some specific type units this "fixed number scale" don´t work accurately, some examples: it is not the same, in terms of firepower (and also resources needed to manufacture such heavy guns): one thousand field howitzers than 1000 railroad guns and siege artillery pieces. In their own specialized roles, a relatively low number of very heavy pieces can achieve what it would not be possible with a thousand lighter guns. As an example, I don´t think it would have been possible to cause the same damage to the heavy Soviet fortifications around Sebastopol using a thousand light or heavy field guns/howitzers, that it could be done using the 80 cm Dora and some other various siege guns, which totalled much less than one tousand individual pieces.

Also, if we adhere to this rule, there should be very low limits to the number of other very relevant (but manufactured in relatively very low numbers) German heavy units:

- Tiger I: 1350 built (1 or, if rounding up, 2 units max. allowed)
- Jagdpanther: less than 400 built.
- King Tiger: Aprox. 500 built.
- Panther (all variants): Just 6000 units built... (six BE units equivalent)

(Except for the Panther figure, that I checked with some sources, all other figures came from my rather flawed memory, so they can be less that accurate)

I saw that the Elephant/Ferdinand SPAT got the same type of limitation that the Karl Gerat in terms af availabilty (just one unit, 4 strenght points), but not the others... Which is a good thing, because if we suppose that in the mod´s "alternate history" development the Germans were making much better than in real life for the late part of the war, they would have been able to achieve higher production numbers for their weapon factories.

If, on the other hand, the player just "writes the alternate history" in a way that it is more in line to the real one, well, the very own limitig factors present in the mod will give him all the constraints that were also present in the real history to the Germans for their production complex: loss of prestige caused by bombing of their cities, low fuel availability which cause experience loss for air (and land also?) units, etc... Which, again, speaks a lot about how much thinking was put into this marvellous mod balance and design.

Agian, please, don´t take me as a "party crasher" who came in to try to change everything or reinvent the wheel here, I am just giving some though fodder for the reasons about why not in all cases the "1000 units" rule works so correctly.

And best of all, and this is one of the things that make me love so much this game: I can pretend that I am a VERY wealthy general in a high command position and I can arrange a "private purchase" with the Krupp firm and take with me to the front those beautiful 28cm K5(e) guns that I want so much!! I just have to add some characters in the correct cells of the equipment table, and it´s done!

[/quote]
Maybe it is time for you to finally try the mod and see those nice unit icons in action that you made for it?
[/quote]

Well, yes, I am now feeling a strong case of "PzCorps" itching... The problem is that I am now using an old netbook as my "service computer" which is not able to handle the PzCorps program, So first, I would have to build my new desktop rig, I bought the new necessary components, but I need to have the time and feel right for doing it, heheh).

Again, I would never get tired to said thanks to you an all the community that gave me so much for so long!!

I just think you need to make certain choices and simplifications to summarize the magnitude and complexity of the WW2 armies as best as you can in a mod.

From what I understand, McGuba is constantly recalibrating and adjusting the mod to ensure/maintain historical accuracy as much as possible while keeping the mod playable.

To give you another example / to explain what I mean:

Given the simulated scale of this mod (but also in the base game to some extent), I think it's important to remember that even the unit composition as such isn't accurate in the first place, e.g. a panzer division wasn't just only made of tanks, many not even with the same type of tanks but a mix of tanks (as we all know). Plus all sorts of other stuff that are separate units in PzC...

Plus the compositions were different across some divisions and changed over time as well.

https://www.welt.de/geschichte/zweiter- ... anzer.html
https://www.quora.com/In-World-War-II-w ... e-division

So what does one tank unit represent in this mod then? Well, one tank unit represents around 200 tanks. Is this accurate, no... Is it a reasonable approximation, yes...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_division
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_G ... _divisions

So the Germans had something between 25 to 40 panzer divisions (depending on when, what and how you count)... but in the end some were even just renamed infantry divisions plus one tank battalion (Abteilung), i.e. three companies with a total of around 50 tanks... battalion not regiment

All I want to say, this mod is a massive but still sophisticated simplification... and it's great to play...

This is interesting by the way:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=rk-T-iNSdaw

Just for reference:

guille1434 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:37 pm About the 1000 actual units for one in-game unit rule, I think it is a good measure to balance the things out... And it is not that I pretent to rienvent the wheel here, as the mod, as we all can read here is one of the most realistic and well balanced in the PzCorps "universe". But anyway here are some thoughts:

In the in-game Library I wrote a section about the unit scale of the mod. Ground units do not represent fixed units like divisions or corps as I am fully aware that these comprised several different weapon types. If it was like there would only be two unit types at this scale: a generic infantry and a tank unit to represent the infantry coprs and armoured divisions. But it would not be too much fun to only move two types of units and it would be very far from the traditional Panzer General spirit in which many unit classes and unit types are present. And if there was only two types of units it would also deprive talented icon makers like you of their favourite hobby of contributing new unit icons, wouldn'it?

So for more detail I suggest checking the unit scale section of the in-game Library. You can also read it without installing the game if you run the "changes.htm" in the "Library" folder. In a nutshelly, tank units represent 200 tanks of the same type, same for other similar units like armoured cars or StuGs or Soviet ISU self propelled guns. Towed AT, AA and artillery units on the other hand represent 1,000 guns, normally the same type but for example the Karl unit represents all the different siege artillery they had.

Of course I know that the units in this mod represent non-existent units for example they never used 1,000 towed AT guns in a mass in real life but somehow it still works. And that's the main thing. As long as the unit scale is consistent and in line with the historical numbers it does not really matter what we call them. 200 Tigers will always be much better than 200 Shermans and most likely also better than 400, but perhaps not so much when they have to face 600 or even more. In the mod it looks like 1 Tiger unit facing 1, 2 or even more Shermans. Also, when in real life the Soviets had like 4,000 field guns in an battle they could overwhelm 1,000 German guns which would be 4 vs. 1 towed artillery units in the mod in a certain area. Luckily it is relatively easy to find out how many of these were produced and used by the participants and in this way it is relatively easy to recreate the historical ratios.

guille1434 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:37 pm I just could pinpoint the Ju-88 night fighter unit... Aren´t there some N.F. Bf-110 out there?

The Bf 110G is present in the mod. In real life it had both night fighter and daytime bomber destoryer subtypes but for simplicity these are not seen seperately in the mod. Moreso that on some occasions night fighters were used against daytime bombers and of course also because in the game there are no day and night turns. And anyway one turn in the mod represents two weeks of fighting. So when a "night" fighter like a Bf 110G or Ju 88G attacks a British heavy bomber in a turn it represents an air battle at one night (or maybe several nights) during the two week period and if another Bf 110G attacks a US heavy bomber in the same turn it represents another daylight air battle at some point during the two week period of the same turn. I hope it makes sense.

For some specific type units this "fixed number scale" don´t work accurately, some examples: it is not the same, in terms of firepower (and also resources needed to manufacture such heavy guns): one thousand field howitzers than 1000 railroad guns and siege artillery pieces. In their own specialized roles, a relatively low number of very heavy pieces can achieve what it would not be possible with a thousand lighter guns. As an example, I don´t think it would have been possible to cause the same damage to the heavy Soviet fortifications around Sebastopol using a thousand light or heavy field guns/howitzers, that it could be done using the 80 cm Dora and some other various siege guns, which totalled much less than one tousand individual pieces.

Actually it works, and yes, and it is exactly like that in the mod. A 10.5 cm or 15 cm field gun unit (which represents a concentration of 1,000 such field guns) is most likely ineffective against a heavy fortress like Sevastopol or Kronstadt. At best it will only cause a little suppression and it will only reduce the strength of the fortress if it gets a very lucky dice roll, which is uncommon. However, the understrength Karl unit, which represents a few dozen heavy siege guns at best, will destroy one strength point of that heavy fortress in almost every attack. Which does not seem too much but still better than the zero damage caused by the normal field guns. And thus the siege of such a strong fortress will usually last for several turns i.e. several weeks or months as it happened in real life.

Also, if we adhere to this rule, there should be very low limits to the number of other very relevant (but manufactured in relatively very low numbers) German heavy units:

- Tiger I: 1350 built (1 or, if rounding up, 2 units max. allowed)
- Jagdpanther: less than 400 built.
- King Tiger: Aprox. 500 built.
- Panther (all variants): Just 6000 units built...

Yes, there are significant limits for most of these, except for the Panther. The main limit is their price, but the rarest units like the Elefant cannot be purchased at all. Also, only one Tiger unit is added for free late in 1942 and for a while it is not possible to purchase more. Even when it is, it is very expensive, I mean it costs several times more than a StuG or Pz.IV so it does not really worth to purchase it although the possibility is there. In reality there were never really more than 300-350 operational Tiger Is available at any given point in WW2 due to constant losses, but even this peak strength was not maintained for long and the average was only around 200 for the majority of the war. Hence there is only one Tiger I unit in the mod unless the player decides to purchase another one for a very high price.

low fuel availability which cause experience loss for air (and land also?) units

At the higher difficulty versions of the mod ground units lose 2 fuel points in each turn until at least two oilfields are captured and reparied (which again takes time so it is not enough to just capture them). Also the maximum fuel (range) of the bigger warships is severly limited i.e. in practice these can only be used close to their home ports and cannot reach the open seas.

Agian, please, don´t take me as a "party crasher" who came in to try to change everything or reinvent the wheel here, I am just giving some though fodder for the reasons about why not in all cases the "1000 units" rule works so correctly.

No problem at all, I am aware that this system is not perfect but I tried to make the best out of the game engine and to make it consistent.

And best of all, and this is one of the things that make me love so much this game: I can pretend that I am a VERY wealthy general in a high command position and I can arrange a "private purchase" with the Krupp firm and take with me to the front those beautiful 28cm K5(e) guns that I want so much!! I just have to add some characters in the correct cells of the equipment table, and it´s done!

Yes, for sure, if somebody wants to modify certain aspects of the mod for his own use it is of course possible but it may affect the overall balance of the mod. So if you add an extra railway gun unit you should remove 1-2 other normal guns unless your aim is to make the mod a little easier for you.

Do you follow TIK's youtube channel, which now presents the Stalingrad campaign? It is so immersive - every time I see a new episode I get a motivation to play again BE and achive, what the Germans couldn't.

Uhu wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:52 pm Do you follow TIK's youtube channel, which now presents the Stalingrad campaign? It is so immersive - every time I see a new episode I get a motivation to play again BE and achive, what the Germans couldn't.

It is great that the virtual war allows all revanchists to take the upper hand at the end at least in the game )))

http://alternathistory.com/opasnye-kosh ... j-vengrii/
http://alternathistory.com/pantera-po-v ... o-chast-2/
http://alternathistory.com/pantera-po-v ... u-drugogo/

LEGENDS AND MYTHS OF MILITARY HISTORY
You need to know the history - so as not to repeat the previous mistakes
http://www.volk59.narod.ru/finwar.html
http://www.volk59.narod.ru/

Noob Questions:

How you use the rockets V1 to get 100 prestige?
Do you just fly them over any London hex at the end of the turn?
Which hexes are considered as London area?
Do you fly over them or try to hit with them?

From Tiger I to Tiger II and how much it costs for upgrade? Is it worth it?

thanks

faos333 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:31 pm Noob Questions:

How you use the rockets V1 to get 100 prestige?
Do you just fly them over any London hex at the end of the turn?
Which hexes are considered as London area?
Do you fly over them or try to hit with them?

From Tiger I to Tiger II and how much it costs for upgrade? Is it worth it?

thanks

I think you just need to be above the London city hexes. Problem is if there is a RAF plane that you don't see.

I didn't even know that there is a Tiger II upgrade... I doubt it is worth it. I prefer more units even if weaker. Also I think fighters are more relevant. Same with StuGs (in total better kill to cost ratio IMHO).

You need to fly them on the major London hexes. Than release it. It is important! Than a message pops up which informs you about the events (+100 prestige). After that, you can either let the given rocket on that hex - in the next turn it will disappear. But if you want to shoot more rockets in one turn and it is not bad weather, after the message (!), you can also attack London directly and so the given rocket will disappear. So you can send the next one in.

PeteMitchell wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:40 pm

faos333 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:31 pm Noob Questions:

How you use the rockets V1 to get 100 prestige?
Do you just fly them over any London hex at the end of the turn?
Which hexes are considered as London area?
Do you fly over them or try to hit with them?

From Tiger I to Tiger II and how much it costs for upgrade? Is it worth it?

thanks

I think you just need to be above the London city hexes. Problem is if there is a RAF plane that you don't see.

I didn't even know that there is a Tiger II upgrade... I doubt it is worth it. I prefer more units even if weaker. Also I think fighters are more relevant. Same with StuGs (in total better kill to cost ratio IMHO).

all of these playthroughs and discussions in other areas has me curious. McGuba. Is this mod set up to only to be played from the Axis perspective, or is there consideration for someone who is interested in playing from the allied point of view?

goose_2 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:53 pm all of these playthroughs and discussions in other areas has me curious. McGuba. Is this mod set up to only to be played from the Axis perspective, or is there consideration for someone who is interested in playing from the allied point of view?

It is mainly setup for you to play the Axis and the AI to play the Allied/Soviet side.

However, I had tried playing it from the Allied/Soviet side:
viewtopic.php?t=88098

My suggestion from this attempt is to give the AI the highest possible amount of prestige and strengths points (e.g. Manstein level) so it has some chance as the Axis... However, it misses the scripts in certain areas to do what is needed... so it only works to some extent...

Other than that, there is BE multiplayer of course. Uhu would probably play with you!

PeteMitchell wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:03 pm

goose_2 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:53 pm all of these playthroughs and discussions in other areas has me curious. McGuba. Is this mod set up to only to be played from the Axis perspective, or is there consideration for someone who is interested in playing from the allied point of view?

It is mainly setup for you to play the Axis and the AI to play the Allied/Soviet side.

However, I had tried playing it from the Allied/Soviet side:
viewtopic.php?t=88098

My suggestion from this attempt is to give the AI the highest possible amount of prestige and strengths points (e.g. Manstein level) so it has some chance as the Axis... However, it misses the scripts in certain areas to do what is needed... so it only works to some extent...

Other than that, there is BE multiplayer of course. Uhu would probably play with you!

UHU would be the man to play. I am willing to play him as the allies with him as the Axis. I will try to fit it in once every week, or every other week. At least I will try

Hi Goose_2,
thanks for challenging me! I would happy to play but only about from the start of March, because I'm busy until that. If I can earlier start, than I report to you. (...and I play just PBEM because sadly only there you can use dice chess)
But you have to know it is not anyway easier to play with the Allies. Also I would suggest, when McGuba comes out with the new version, you play multiplayer with PBEM and try it from both side to see, what happens on both side and you can try several strategies for the Allied.
I'm following your single player campaign, really great that you put it on youtube for wider audience! You make good advance, so strategically it seems to be a good direction (although the real challenge comes about after turn 35... ), what concerns me, that you let many times high casualities happen for your units with curious tactical moves. Of course it is your play, I do not want to intervene in, just saying, that in the multiplayer, you will not have so much prestige from neither side.

goose_2 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:33 pm

PeteMitchell wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:03 pm

goose_2 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:53 pm all of these playthroughs and discussions in other areas has me curious. McGuba. Is this mod set up to only to be played from the Axis perspective, or is there consideration for someone who is interested in playing from the allied point of view?

It is mainly setup for you to play the Axis and the AI to play the Allied/Soviet side.

However, I had tried playing it from the Allied/Soviet side:
viewtopic.php?t=88098

My suggestion from this attempt is to give the AI the highest possible amount of prestige and strengths points (e.g. Manstein level) so it has some chance as the Axis... However, it misses the scripts in certain areas to do what is needed... so it only works to some extent...

Other than that, there is BE multiplayer of course. Uhu would probably play with you!

UHU would be the man to play. I am willing to play him as the allies with him as the Axis. I will try to fit it in once every week, or every other week. At least I will try

Yes, turn 35... suddenly the war changes... from "walk in the park" to "the walking dead"

Plus in MP, when playing the Allies, you have less units than the AI has when playing in single player, just a word of warning upfront...

PBEM here would mean sending emails with the game file and not via the server.

I would love to see this on youtube, Uhu vs. goose_2 at BE MP.

@McGuba: when is the new version coming and what is it all about?

I still hope you could fit the Spanish Civil War some day and maybe even a slightly bigger map (i.e. a bit further north incl. Narvik and Murmansk plus a bit further east towards Iran)

Daddy looks forward to it. And I will definitely be putting it on my channel. Even if it does give Uhu a major advantage, unless of course he has his own channel?

Hello,
It's time to up the game, so to say. Anyone willing to have a multiplayer match?
I can play either side. Normal or dice chess. Kinda like the Uhu's gentlemens house rule set consept though. Version 2.15

I think it is not far that McGuba will release 2.16, or 2.2. Of course with many new features.

PeteMitchell wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:52 pm @McGuba: when is the new version coming and what is it all about?

It is coming but unfortunately I cannot tell when because I don't know. It will be ready when it is ready. It will bring some important changes and improvements, including map changes but sorry no extension to the north is planned. I plan to show some of the changes here soon.

I agree that adding the Spanish civil war would be nice but it is not on the top of my list at the moment. First I would like to fix the existing problems and balance the new things that were added recently. The other thing is it looks like many new players simply skip the pre-1941 scenarios and start with Barbarossa upfront. I understand that many players are just too excited about the mod and want to play the big scenario immediately instead of starting in Poland, so chances are good that even less players would be interested in playing Spain as a tutorial. Nevertheless, it should be there for sure as "dress rehearsal" to complete the picture. Maybe some time later.

Oh don't worry I don't know about everyone but I sometimes like small wars before WWII and after ) So I played Poland more than once and even for the USSR in early versions ) So if there is a Civil War in Spain or the second Italian-Ethiopian War, I will play with pleasure !
https://humus.livejournal.com/2498734.html
https://foto-history.livejournal.com/3914486.html


https://istorja.ru/forums/topic/2209-vt ... 5-1941-gg/