Slitherine

Zhivago wrote:I have no argument that through 1942, the JU-87D is your best option as a tactical bomber. However, with the huge numbers of fighters and bombers you face in DLC 43, keeping a unit like the JU-87G that can only do one thing well is a luxury. Most importantly, if you want to keep the JU-87G alive for very long in DLC 43, it always needs to be escorted by a fighter. As such, you have two units that are tied up each turn to do one job. The ME410 is not as effective against armor as the JU-87G, but it is not as bad as you make it out to be.

I guess we could debate this on and on. Whatever floats your boat is what you should go with I guess.

A friendly debate is always good

My personal view is the later in the war you get the less valuable the Stuka is. As the Russian AF gets larger and larger you need to not only be concerned with what damage you can do but with survivability. The AI will attack your planes if given a chance. I have lost full strength air units even with an escort. The 410 and FWF/G have a fighting chance of living through a serious attack. Plus they can help finish off weaken air units. While they may not be great agaisnt armour they aren't bad against infantry and artillery, especially rocket artillery, so once you gain air superiority they can do some damage.
Against the US/UK the Stuka is pretty much toast.

MartyWard wrote:My personal view is the later in the war you get the less valuable the Stuka is. As the Russian AF gets larger and larger you need to not only be concerned with what damage you can do but with survivability. The AI will attack your planes if given a chance. I have lost full strength air units even with an escort. The 410 and FWF/G have a fighting chance of living through a serious attack. Plus they can help finish off weaken air units. While they may not be great agaisnt armour they aren't bad against infantry and artillery, especially rocket artillery, so once you gain air superiority they can do some damage.
Against the US/UK the Stuka is pretty much toast.

Very true I am planning on updating them all to FW-190s during 1944. I probably should have done it half way through 43 but I havent decided about that yet.

brettz123 wrote:

MartyWard wrote:My personal view is the later in the war you get the less valuable the Stuka is. As the Russian AF gets larger and larger you need to not only be concerned with what damage you can do but with survivability. The AI will attack your planes if given a chance. I have lost full strength air units even with an escort. The 410 and FWF/G have a fighting chance of living through a serious attack. Plus they can help finish off weaken air units. While they may not be great agaisnt armour they aren't bad against infantry and artillery, especially rocket artillery, so once you gain air superiority they can do some damage.
Against the US/UK the Stuka is pretty much toast.

Very true I am planning on updating them all to FW-190s during 1944. I probably should have done it half way through 43 but I havent decided about that yet.

I would wait for the FW-190G tactical bomber--the FW-190F tactical bomber is actually inferior to the ME-410. The FW-190G has a fuel capacity of 68 to the ME-410's 105, but is equal to, or slightly superior than, the ME-410 in all other aspects (except spotting).

Is the initiative higher? This is a big difference when attacking other fighters which is what I would use it for mostly anyway.

brettz123 wrote:Is the initiative higher? This is a big difference when attacking other fighters which is what I would use it for mostly anyway.

The FW-190G has an initiative of 11, as opposed to the 10 for the ME-410. Go to the original Panzer Corps scenarios, pull up the USA West Coast scenario, and review the equipment available for purchase there. It has all of the units we are discussing, so you can quickly compare them. Too bad the DO-335 is not available until early 1945!

Well for Airpower I went with 6x FW190 (I bought 1) and converted my Ju-87d units to :

2x ME-410
1x Ju-87G

It worked very well. I was very pleased with this choice. The Ju-87 could hard-hit the Armor Unit I needed to hit from time to time and the ME-410's could range the map freely to mop up kills, soften up units or finish off the odd Air unit. This left the FW-190's free to keep the VVS at bay. Decisive Victory in 15 turns.

thanks for all your suggestions,

Kevin

I agree with Zhivago. Even though the Stuka is quite good as tank killers, I often cannot commit them to battle for lack of fighter escort. Left your Stuka unprotected for even one turn usually means disaster. They become very expensive to use because you need to use two planes to do one job. Small fuel capacity and slower speed also present challenge. My Me-410s often ended up fighting Soviet warplanes because my fighters were too busy escorting the JU. I also use large number of HE-177. They also require escort, but not as much as the JU.