Slitherine

In those cases you are both equally disordered, you are for standing in that terrain and your opponent is for attacking into it so it evens out your dice. If you are both the same type of MF, spears for example your POA's would even out too so no advantage to either of you.
Being MF standing in woods won't get you any advantage versus other MF who have to come in after you, but you should be better off vs HF and one would suspect cav.
You would still get an advantage over LF as you would still get 3 dice and your POA's, unless you go fragged or very disordered then they would be even on dice against you.

Ah, so for somebody who exclusively uses MF to stand on broken or forested terrain, offensive spears are a bad idea, and I should always pick the light-spear/swordsmen type? Or Heavy Weapon?

I've been taking the 7 point OF MF because I like wasting money, but I didn't even realise they were losing the whole point of OF because I was placing them in the forests all the time. I only use MF to fill the space in my hoplite-line that will encounter trees or rough terrain, so I can keep moving forward in uniform.

deadtorius wrote:In those cases you are both equally disordered, you are for standing in that terrain and your opponent is for attacking into it so it evens out your dice. If you are both the same type of MF, spears for example your POA's would even out too so no advantage to either of you.

indeed, using defensive tactics in this game is not feasible, aside such extreme cases like crecy or agincourt

Ah, so for somebody who exclusively uses MF to stand on broken or forested terrain, offensive spears are a bad idea, and I should always pick the light-spear/swordsmen type? Or Heavy Weapon?

I prefer to see my MF standing on broken hills and woods, although MF bow is my preferred hiding in the woods type.
Once your spears are disordered they lose the ability to cancel enemy sword POA, which could give your opponent the advantage he wants. MF with sword or HW will always get the their POA regardless so it depends on what you are facing.
HF going into woods will be very disordered and lose 2 dice so you would be up on dice.
If you were in woods MF with sword and your opponent is MF spear, you even out on dice, he gets his spear POA you get your sword POA so no real benefit unless someone has better armour. Heavy weapon would be the same except that if he had better armour your heavy weapon would cancel the armour POA and you would be even again.
Looking at cost per unit to purchase I guess if they are cheaper then light spear might be a better way to go for your tree huggers, but offensive spears will be better if you get out of the woods and take on your opponent in the open.

I have a question regarding this:
Have a HF in steep hill and they lose 2 dice. What happens when that BG gets disrupted? Disrupted lose 1 dice.
Some times in recent games I've gotten a nagging feeling that HF actually fights better in very rough terrain if they are disrupted rather then steady.
Probably it's just the randomness of the dice I've seen but just to be sure it would be nice to get confirmation it's not like that.
The info at the bottom of the screen changes from very disordered to disrupted but that wouldn't necessarily mean that they go from -2 to -1, I guess.

hidde wrote:I have a question regarding this:
Have a HF in steep hill and they lose 2 dice. What happens when that BG gets disrupted? Disrupted lose 1 dice.
Some times in recent games I've gotten a nagging feeling that HF actually fights better in very rough terrain if they are disrupted rather then steady.
Probably it's just the randomness of the dice I've seen but just to be sure it would be nice to get confirmation it's not like that.
The info at the bottom of the screen changes from very disordered to disrupted but that wouldn't necessarily mean that they go from -2 to -1, I guess.

They should suffer the penalty for whichever state is worse, their cohesion state or disruption. So a BG that is fragmented and disordered should suffer the effect of fragmentation (lose 1/2 attacks) only, while one that is disrupted and very disordered should suffer the effect of very disordered (lose 1/2 attacks) only. You should be able to bring up the summary display or watch the combat indicator in the bottom center to see how many attacks you are actually getting.

Chris

batesmotel wrote:

hidde wrote:I have a question regarding this:
Have a HF in steep hill and they lose 2 dice. What happens when that BG gets disrupted? Disrupted lose 1 dice.
Some times in recent games I've gotten a nagging feeling that HF actually fights better in very rough terrain if they are disrupted rather then steady.
Probably it's just the randomness of the dice I've seen but just to be sure it would be nice to get confirmation it's not like that.
The info at the bottom of the screen changes from very disordered to disrupted but that wouldn't necessarily mean that they go from -2 to -1, I guess.

They should suffer the penalty for whichever state is worse, their cohesion state or disruption. So a BG that is fragmented and disordered should suffer the effect of fragmentation (lose 1/2 attacks) only, while one that is disrupted and very disordered should suffer the effect of very disordered (lose 1/2 attacks) only. You should be able to bring up the summary display or watch the combat indicator in the bottom center to see how many attacks you are actually getting.

Chris

Yea,that's what I thought. Don't play with the detailed summary but I could have watched the combat indicator, of course
Thanks!

hidde wrote:I have a question regarding this:
Have a HF in steep hill and they lose 2 dice. What happens when that BG gets disrupted? Disrupted lose 1 dice.
Some times in recent games I've gotten a nagging feeling that HF actually fights better in very rough terrain if they are disrupted rather then steady.
Probably it's just the randomness of the dice I've seen but just to be sure it would be nice to get confirmation it's not like that.
The info at the bottom of the screen changes from very disordered to disrupted but that wouldn't necessarily mean that they go from -2 to -1, I guess.

I think you are getting carried away with specifics rather than the general average. They don't fight any better but they don't fight any worse. A disordered heavy foot is not impacted in combat dice rolls by being fragmented or disordered if in difficult terrain like woods (thus it is little problem to fight MF with legionaires if the MF are protected while you are armored). Being heavy foot you are already very disordeerd and reduced in condiotgion hass little im0pactc. Sorryu I'm really drunk and can't tuype well

Impact foot, swords and heavy weapon would not lose POA's by being disordered. Pikes, well don't even bother going there with them, and spears would lose their POA for being very disordered.
Other HF would lose dice but keep their POA's, so with Romans for example do I want 2 dice at ++ (and hope I don't roll lots of 2's) while the medium foot is 3 dice at -- (and hiding in the woods) or would you rather stay away from the woods and hope the silly buggers come out after you where its 4 dice at + vs 4 dice at minus for protected MF spears in the open. This is looking at melee and not impacts by the way.

Impacts similar situation, impact foot, and heavy weapon don't lose their POA. So you charge impact foot into a unit of spears in the woods its 2 dice at + vs 3 dice at- (HF spears would be 0 POA's if they were in the woods or going into them)

I think it comes down to spears need to be able to be in a tight formation, overlapping shields or something similar and in the woods they just can't keep that tight formation where it gives their opponents a chance to slip into the gaps and make those gaps wider by killing the spears allowing more enemy to get in amongst the spears..etc.

deadtorius wrote:I think it comes down to spears need to be able to be in a tight formation, overlapping shields or something similar and in the woods they just can't keep that tight formation where it gives their opponents a chance to slip into the gaps and make those gaps wider by killing the spears allowing more enemy to get in amongst the spears..etc.

That's the idea.

got it right for a change

deadtorius wrote:I think it comes down to spears need to be able to be in a tight formation, overlapping shields or something similar and in the woods they just can't keep that tight formation where it gives their opponents a chance to slip into the gaps and make those gaps wider by killing the spears allowing more enemy to get in amongst the spears..etc.

But their looser formation would be compensated, at least in part, by the fact that there are also large trees reinforcing their formation, which would "stand fast" much better than another spearman would.

76mm wrote:

deadtorius wrote:I think it comes down to spears need to be able to be in a tight formation, overlapping shields or something similar and in the woods they just can't keep that tight formation where it gives their opponents a chance to slip into the gaps and make those gaps wider by killing the spears allowing more enemy to get in amongst the spears..etc.

But their looser formation would be compensated, at least in part, by the fact that there are also large trees reinforcing their formation, which would "stand fast" much better than another spearman would.

Which is why they don't lose the spearmen POA.

Unless they were heavy foot with spears, then they lose the spear POA.
Otherwise they just lose the ability to cancel the enemies sword POA which probably represents how the sword guys can move in closer with the gaps in the shield wall and are more effective. Trees might help to plug a gap but they just don't fight worth a darn.

deadtorius wrote:Unless they were heavy foot with spears, then they lose the spear POA.
Otherwise they just lose the ability to cancel the enemies sword POA which probably represents how the sword guys can move in closer with the gaps in the shield wall and are more effective. Trees might help to plug a gap but they just don't fight worth a darn.

Unless of course they were Irish trees...

The 54th Regiment of Wild Conifers

Resists urge to make comment about them 'sapping' the enemy's strength.

Regimental nickname: 'The Woodentops'

Regimental Motto: 'Our bark really is worse than our bite'

Sounds like an idea they could institute in the proposed FOG fantasy that was brought up a while ago....... Trees that can hide in the woods and then ambush any enemy who enters an adjacent hex. That would put some true meaning in "stay out of the woods"