Slitherine

GabeKnight wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:21 am Whaaat? Why aren't my two SU-152 (in arty setup) recognized as tanks?
Really? Please fix!!!


Screenshot 312.jpg

You don’t know the trick of deploying these units as tanks and waiting for the objective to be validated to be able to switch them as artillery (also valid in the first scenario of the series) ?

terminator wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:51 am

GabeKnight wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:21 am Whaaat? Why aren't my two SU-152 (in arty setup) recognized as tanks?
Really? Please fix!!!

You don’t know the trick of deploying these units as tanks and waiting for the objective to be validated to be able to switch them as artillery (also valid in the first scenario of the series) ?

Thanks. Sure I know, that's what I did then. But it cost me one turn - the first and very important turn - lacking two arty units.
Why do I have to use "tricks"? Does it mean that a tank with elevated barrel is not a tank anymore?

And if this bug's present in another Soviet scen, then it should be fixed there, too.

I might change the objective so that those SP guns are not counting at all in this case, mainly for historic reasons. It's an iconic tank battle after all, and the tank/arty thing for those SPs is a gameplay-related compromise first and foremost.

GabeKnight wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:29 am

terminator wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:51 am

GabeKnight wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:21 am Whaaat? Why aren't my two SU-152 (in arty setup) recognized as tanks?
Really? Please fix!!!

You don’t know the trick of deploying these units as tanks and waiting for the objective to be validated to be able to switch them as artillery (also valid in the first scenario of the series) ?

Thanks. Sure I know, that's what I did then. But it cost me one turn - the first and very important turn - lacking two arty units.
Why do I have to use "tricks"? Does it mean that a tank with elevated barrel is not a tank anymore?

And if this bug's present in another Soviet scen, then it should be fixed there, too.

In the first mission of Red Star, you can deploy 2 BT-7A as tank and use them as artillery afterwards :

bebro wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:34 am I might change the objective so that those SP guns are not counting at all in this case, mainly for historic reasons. It's an iconic tank battle after all, and the tank/arty thing for those SPs is a gameplay-related compromise first and foremost.

The Soviets brought a ton of self propelled guns to the fight, so it’d be weird to deny them those guns.

Also, I don’t even have five non SPG tanks (two mediums, one light) in my core so I’d be forced to buy two random tanks and then disband them which would be annoying.

terminator wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:21 pm In the first mission of Red Star, you can deploy 2 BT-7A as tank and use them as artillery afterwards :

Yep, you're right.
It's easier to circumvent it here, as the objective is marked as complete even during deployment stage. I can deploy the tanks to satisfy the objective and undeploy them immediately afterwards.

Still, this is a bug and should be changed to include the arty setup of the BT tanks.

prestidigitation wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:08 pm

bebro wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:34 am I might change the objective so that those SP guns are not counting at all in this case, mainly for historic reasons. It's an iconic tank battle after all, and the tank/arty thing for those SPs is a gameplay-related compromise first and foremost.

Also, I don’t even have five non SPG tanks (two mediums, one light) in my core so I’d be forced to buy two random tanks and then disband them which would be annoying.

I'm not sure I completely understand what you're talking about, but if a unit is inside the TANK class and the objective is to deploy five core TANKS, then that's what I do. SP or not SP or whatever. Remember, you moved them SU/ISU units out of the anti-tank class yourself.

However you choose to fix this, please make a clear description in the objective info text about it!

GabeKnight wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:43 am I'm not sure I completely understand what you're talking about, but if a unit is inside the TANK class and the objective is to deploy five core TANKS, then that's what I do. SP or not SP or whatever. Remember, you moved them SU/ISU units out of the anti-tank class yourself.

This has nothing to do with the point I made about historic tank use at Pr.

bebro wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:09 am This has nothing to do with the point I made about historic tank use at Pr.

Pleeeease, I don't want to start another of those "historic" discussions.... I'm not qualified anyway.

Just fix both the scens. I really don't care how, include the arty setup or change it altogether. But please make it clear in the objectives, like add some text with "only units in direct-fire mode count into this objective" or something like that. I'm just tired of reloading turns because of such mistakes.

GabeKnight wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:10 am

bebro wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:09 am This has nothing to do with the point I made about historic tank use at Pr.

Pleeeease, I don't want to start another of those "historic" discussions.... I'm not qualified anyway.

Just fix both the scens. I really don't care how, include the arty setup or change it altogether. But please make it clear in the objectives, like add some text with "only units in direct-fire mode count into this objective" or something like that. I'm just tired of reloading turns because of such mistakes.

I already said how I will change it, and yes - precisely for historic reasons.

bebro wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:14 pm
I already said how I will change it, and yes - precisely for historic reasons.

Please don’t, it’s obnoxious. It’s also not like there’s some secret huge advantage to bringing them anymore now that they’re not AT. Yes they have arty mode but that’s not helpful in a standup fight.

Simply bumping their cost up somewhat to reflect their dual purpose nature would make them less desirable without resorting to goofery.

It’s also not like Prokhorovka was some immense tank battle. Brody, El Alamein, Goodwood and the swirling battles around Raisenai all had FAR more tanks present, but none of the ones represented in game have a tank quantity requirement.

At most three seems reasonable, five is just excessive when the Soviets had half again as many tanks at Brody as both combined brought at Prokhorovka.

bebro wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:14 pm I already said how I will change it[...]

OK, thank you.
(I was probably just irritated by the word "might change"...)

I have np changing it to three, but dedicated T-34 or KV then (or even light - as the force at Pr was heavy on both T34 and T 70s). This leaves enough room for core SP guns.

edit: this is re to post before obvsly

bebro wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:11 pm I have np changing it to three, but dedicated T-34 or KV then (or even light - as the force at Pr was heavy on both T34 and T 70s). This leaves enough room for core SP guns.

edit: this is re to post before obvsly

Very fair and no longer excessive

Ok, so back the the issue with people getting a defeat in the Partisan scn when the objective "Paratroopers must survive" fails for no good reason after any combat occured.

One player was so kind to provide a savegame with the prob being reproducable, which was very helpful for us to ID the prob.

As things stand now the problem needs an actual patch to be fully resolved, scenario editing won't do it. My assumption is that something in a later patch affects this scn negatively, as this prob never occured during beta. However, that's a bit of a moot point now.

What I can offer as a short-term help is a simple workaround that basically makes sure the "Paratroopers need to survive" objective never fails.

Partisan Scenario - Workaround for "defeat" issue
************************************************************
If you want to try it, here's a short how-to:

1. Download the attached file, unzip it.

2. Put the resulting file scenario.scz into the folder of the Partisan scenario in your installation

This can vary a bit depending on specific platform, but watch out for the folder at the end part of the path below:

<your game installation/drive/path> ..\Content\Campaigns\15Soviet_3\Scenarios\sov3_Partisans

This will overwrite the original scenario.scz file in this folder, so backup before if you want to switch back for some reason

3. Play the partisan scenario with this workaround - the objective should not fail, so this should at least make this scenario playable, if people do not want to wait for a patch.

Pls. note:

A previous mid- scenario savegame of Partisans will not benefit from the change, so don't just reload an older save, instead play the entire scenario anew, best from a campaign save before.

Also -- this is essentially untested, as I still can only reproduce the problem in the bugged save we received, but not in a normal playthrough based on my own saves.