Slitherine

NOTE/UPDATE: This mod no longer functions with the most recent version of FoG and I have no plans to update it.

Although not completed, I figured I should make a more permanent home for this mod here with a single, easier to take in list of all of the features and changes, rather than the longer and more confusing version by version changelist of the original thread in the much busier main forum.

download for MULTIPLAYER and CAMPAIGNS folders version:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/903dosc5fdt8 ... yuXta?dl=0

and global version:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/g56k6p8z53by ... bX-Fa?dl=0

Then extract the folder to:

C:\Users\YourName\Documents\My Games\FieldOfGlory2\CAMPAIGNS

to be able to launch the mod in custom battles

and if you copy the folder over to:

C:\Users\YourName\Documents\My Games\FieldOfGlory2\MULTIPLAYER

you should be able to use it in multiplayer games, and into:

C:\Users\YourName\Documents\My Games\FieldOfGlory2\MODS

*I've updated the global mod now, see thread for details

**EDIT: I'm hosting a tournament with the mod here:
viewtopic.php?f=494&t=100425&p=868976#p868976

Feature list:

I tried putting the list in here but I couldn't get the multi-leveled ordered list features I wanted, so see the feature list in this doc:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9zulbqjdzybi2 ... l.pdf?dl=0

Hi, I've read the full changelog list and this really sounds promissing.

JC_von_Preussen wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:42 am Hi, I've read the full changelog list and this really sounds promissing.

great! thanks for your interest. let me know if you want to play an mp game with it sometime

I’m trying your global version of the mod now while playing Persia in FoGE. I really like it, the changes make AI more competitive.

General observation (not related to my above game), I believe that there should be a lot more anarchy charges, especially when unit is out of command. I rarely see units anarchy charging (I’m talking about around 3 charges in very large battles, with out of command and undisciplined spearmen and hillmen). It may be a problem with the global version of the mod, I don’t know.

Now speaking about Persia itself, due to the fact that bowmen are exempt from anarchy charges, there is literally no unit in my Persian armies that may anarchy charge. I think that only light skirmishers should be except from anarchy charges, as it makes little sense, that my Immortals, and other similar (but worse) front units, would never ever charge even if our of command.

Quivis wrote: ↑Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:00 am I’m trying your global version of the mod now while playing Persia in FoGE. I really like it, the changes make AI more competitive.

General observation (not related to my above game), I believe that there should be a lot more anarchy charges, especially when unit is out of command. I rarely see units anarchy charging (I’m talking about around 3 charges in very large battles, with out of command and undisciplined spearmen and hillmen). It may be a problem with the global version of the mod, I don’t know.

Now speaking about Persia itself, due to the fact that bowmen are exempt from anarchy charges, there is literally no unit in my Persian armies that may anarchy charge. I think that only light skirmishers should be except from anarchy charges, as it makes little sense, that my Immortals, and other similar (but worse) front units, would never ever charge even if our of command.

I generally agree that the anarchy charges should be more common than currently. I think perhaps higher base anarchy charge ratings are in order. Currently the thinking is that anarchy is kind of a punishment for letting units get out of command, but if you are careful with that and just move to the enemy and attack always that means you might never suffer anarcy

Currently the base value is 25% for undisciplined units. What do you think about the list of anarchy charge modifiers and their values in the doc?

As for the immortals, I think rather than having ranged units typically never anarchy charge, perhaps it should be only exclusively ranged units that never anarchy charge, ie bowman with swordsmen capability or horse archers with swordsmen capability perhaps should anarchy charge?

you've reminded me that now would be a good time to update the global mod, because it is now quite far behind the normal one.

Quivis wrote: ↑Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:00 am I’m trying your global version of the mod now while playing Persia in FoGE....

I've updated the global mod now but because global mods are not compatible with certain UI changes the global version does not have the army list changes from the non-global version for custom battles, and does not have the UI covering the map for unit selection, but those shouldn't matter I suspect for most of the reasons people use global mods (FOgE exported battles and campaign I guess?)

Schweetness101 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:48 pm

Quivis wrote: ↑Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:00 am I’m trying your global version of the mod now while playing Persia in FoGE....

I've updated the global mod now but because global mods are not compatible with certain UI changes the global version does not have the army list changes from the non-global version for custom battles, and does not have the UI covering the map for unit selection, but those shouldn't matter I suspect for most of the reasons people use global mods (FOgE exported battles and campaign I guess?)

Thanks, I’ll try the new version.

Schweetness101 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:19 am
I generally agree that the anarchy charges should be more common than currently. I think perhaps higher base anarchy charge ratings are in order. Currently the thinking is that anarchy is kind of a punishment for letting units get out of command, but if you are careful with that and just move to the enemy and attack always that means you might never suffer anarcy

Currently the base value is 25% for undisciplined units. What do you think about the list of anarchy charge modifiers and their values in the doc?

I think you have to be very careful about increasing the amount of anarchy that is likely to occur in matches. A lot should obviously depend on the type of armies that are being used, but it should usually be possible for very good players to mitigate the amount of anarchy they experience in a battle unless they start to suffer serious degradation to their command structure. The experience with FOG1 was that some players really got fed up with the amount of anarchy that was happening that they could not control and they consequently stopped playing. What starts out as an exciting new feature can quickly become a severe pain in the rear if it is calibrated incorrectly.

Once the latest season of the FOG2DL is over in about a month's time I will have more time to spend on this project again. But I would think we would need substantial play-testing before we decide to increase the likelihood of anarchy substantially.

As for the immortals, I think rather than having ranged units typically never anarchy charge, perhaps it should be only exclusively ranged units that never anarchy charge, ie bowman with swordsmen capability or horse archers with swordsmen capability perhaps should anarchy charge?

But weren't the Immortals ultra-disciplined troops?

stockwellpete wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:46 am Once the latest season of the FOG2DL is over in about a month's time I will have more time to spend on this project again. But I would think we would need substantial play-testing before we decide to increase the likelihood of anarchy substantially.

ok cool

stockwellpete wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:46 am But weren't the Immortals ultra-disciplined troops?

yes, i'm thinking they should perhaps be 'disciplined' (like for example legions or hoplites) rather than altogether exempt from anarchy charging (right now they can never anarchy charge regardless of conditions like other bowmen).

It’s not only about immortals. The same applies to sparabara foot and basically all cavalry units of Persia. I really did not exaggerate by saying that I had literally no unit which could anarchy charge in my Persian armies. I understand that skirmisher units would not be willing to anarchy charge enemy phalanx, however, that should not apply to front units which are meant to hand to hand combat after firing some shots.

Regarding increasing the amount of anarchy, I was simply stating that that mechanic is almost nonexistent in my game, while fighting against AI armies (as my armies are not anarchy charging due to the above reasons). If I fight very large battles (I use 150% conversion rate option), which means that there are like 50 units per army, and there is around 1 to 3 anarchy charges during the whole long battle, there is something wrong with either the global version of the mod, or with the rate of anarchy charges.

I see what you mean, because ranged units are systematically exempt from anarchy, as Persia you would get very little anarchy (same with other similar ranged unit focused armies around Persia, and also disciplined Greek Hoplites won't be that anarchy prone either), so it's worth discussing if some non-light ranged units should have some chance of anarchy charging.

The other issue is that the design philosophy is that anarchy is kind of the result of letting units get out of command range and the CinC dying, so if you have a disciplined/exempt from anarchy army to begin with, and you are careful with keeping your CinC safe and all units in command, then by design you should be suffering very little if any anarchy. Whether that is the correct design principle is I guess what we are debating here.

Have you tried a custom battle with the mod using say a warband heavy army? If you were to combine trying to defend with a warband heavy army, you will likely notice a lot more anarchy. Thracians are also anarchic, so maybe thrace vs galatia could be a nice test for you to try.

Seems pretty good. I'll join!

I'm hosting a tournament with the mod here:
viewtopic.php?f=494&t=100425&p=868976#p868976
if there is any interest

phoyle3290 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:04 pm Seems pretty good. I'll join!

thanks phoyle! could you post this reply in the tournament thread?

viewtopic.php?f=494&t=100425&p=868976#p868976

thanks again!

Do you have to create the MODS folder as I dont seem to have one

tmac11 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:58 pm Do you have to create the MODS folder as I dont seem to have one

you may need to create one if you don't have it:

C:\Users\YourName\Documents\My Games\FieldOfGlory2\MODS

Hi,
when I select my forces for a game using this mod I don't get the unit description boxes showing all the info about each unit. I realise that the map is supposed to be hidden but are the unit info boxes supposed to be hidden as well? Is this a design choice or is there something wrong with my mod install?
thanks,
Dave.

TomoeGozen wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:28 pm Hi,
when I select my forces for a game using this mod I don't get the unit description boxes showing all the info about each unit. I realise that the map is supposed to be hidden but are the unit info boxes supposed to be hidden as well? Is this a design choice or is there something wrong with my mod install?
thanks,
Dave.

the unit description boxes should still be showing. It was a bug that they weren't showing before but I fixed it, but recent fixes to accommodate other resolutions may have messed with it again. I'll prioritize looking at this right now.

EDIT: ok this was another resolution bug, long story short I'm pretty sure I've fixed it now so that on various resolutions, during unit selection, and during unit preview, you should be able to see the full unit list, and the unit info box on mouse over. The unit list is pretty close to the middle of the screen now, and the unit info box quite a bit to its right, but there are so many resolutions that floating them both way over with plenty of padding between was the only way to somewhat easily get it to show up on all resolutions. I've updated the link

Ah, ok, thanks very much.I will download the latest version.(although picking a list when you don't know what the units are does add a certain 'excitement' to the army selection process )
Cheers,
Dave.

TomoeGozen wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:09 am Ah, ok, thanks very much.I will download the latest version.(although picking a list when you don't know what the units are does add a certain 'excitement' to the army selection process )
Cheers,
Dave.

just fyi updated again this morning because the last update covered up the 'accept' button lol

should be good now though.