Slitherine

Hello, is there also a trial version of PC2 ... or do you have to buy the cat in the bag?
Because the pictures as such do not convince me

there is no trial or demo version

Steam refunds games if you played them for less than 2 hours, so you could try that.

OK, then PC2 has finished for me. Thanks

Juansana wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:18 am OK, then PC2 has finished for me. Thanks

WAIT! Me and my mates will chip in and buy you PC2 as a gift, no problem..

gokkel wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:55 am Steam refunds games if you played them for less than 2 hours, so you could try that.

Steam refund system is not meant to be a demo replacement.

https://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds/

ABUSE
Refunds are designed to remove the risk from purchasing titles on Steam—not as a way to get free games. If it appears to us that you are abusing refunds, we may stop offering them to you.

So you really shouldn't tell people to do this.

"Kerensky"... how about somebody making a 5-10 minute or so sample "PzCr2 play-through-video" [Part-1, Part-2 and so on]... explaining and demonstrating what-ever can be managed to get into it... as to how over-runs, reconnaissance, strategic-bombing, encirclements... and so-on 'work' as well as the various other aspects of the Game that I didn't mention here!. Also recommend with 'Links-Provided'... the various instruction demonstration videos that explain in detail some of the aspects.

Then... these interested persons... can see what the Game looks-like visually and to also get an idea of what is involved in playing PzCr2... what to do... and what to avoid doing.

This will at least give them a measure of assurance of what they can expect to get out of this Game... and to find out or evaluate for themselves... whether it suites their playing-style or expectations.

There is a lot of game play available on YouTube for the mildly motivated player. Both TheEdmund and Green Knight have extensive video series on the game. thehistoricalgamer also did a run-through, but I think it was just the early release and not a recent version. There are also how-to guides posted in the forum (again, I think from TheEdmund and Green Knight). Those will never replace a "try it before you buy it" model, but you can get a very good sense of the game with very little effort.

Kerensky wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:41 am

gokkel wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:55 am Steam refunds games if you played them for less than 2 hours, so you could try that.

Steam refund system is not meant to be a demo replacement.

https://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds/

ABUSE
Refunds are designed to remove the risk from purchasing titles on Steam—not as a way to get free games. If it appears to us that you are abusing refunds, we may stop offering them to you.

So you really shouldn't tell people to do this.

The risk of purchasing game is that you buy a game that you won't enjoy. He is interested to buy it but wants to avoid the risk of wasting money and being disappointed. Sounds to me like this is exactly what the system is for. You don't really get a free game with this if you can play for less than 2 hours.

I wouldn't recommend it to people to just randomly buy a lot of games and try them all out, but since he specifically asks here in the Panzer Corps 2 forum I assume he has some base interest in specifically this game.

gokkel wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:22 am

Kerensky wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:41 am

gokkel wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:55 am Steam refunds games if you played them for less than 2 hours, so you could try that.

Steam refund system is not meant to be a demo replacement.

https://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds/

ABUSE
Refunds are designed to remove the risk from purchasing titles on Steam—not as a way to get free games. If it appears to us that you are abusing refunds, we may stop offering them to you.

So you really shouldn't tell people to do this.

The risk of purchasing game is that you buy a game that you won't enjoy. He is interested to buy it but wants to avoid the risk of wasting money and being disappointed. Sounds to me like this is exactly what the system is for. You don't really get a free game with this if you can play for less than 2 hours.

I wouldn't recommend it to people to just randomly buy a lot of games and try them all out, but since he specifically asks here in the Panzer Corps 2 forum I assume he has some base interest in specifically this game.

This is entirely reasonable.

It could be argued that it is poor practice to dissuade a consumer from exercising rights offered to them by Steam. It also makes it sound like the producer's of Panzer Corps 2 have less than total faith in their own product (which I am sure is not the case).

As it happens as a purchaser of lots of Slitherine/Matrix games both on and off Steam (over 20) I did buy Panzer Corps 2 but refunded after less than an hour as it was not for me so I do have some sympathy for the OP as I was able to avoid wasting the purchase price.

devoncop wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:45 pm It could be argued that it is poor practice to dissuade a consumer from exercising rights offered to them by Steam. It also makes it sound like the producer's of Panzer Corps 2 have less than total faith in their own product (which I am sure is not the case).

I'm not sure from your wording whether you're suggesting we try to dissuade users from refunding, or if you're just suggesting it would be a stupid thing to do.

Either way, we've no problem with Steams refund policy and it can be demonstrated, let alone argued, that on many occaisions we have suggested users do exactly that. For hardware compatability alone its often the only way to be sure since it's impossible for us to test on every potential combination. There's plenty of videos out there too that demonstrate aspects of gameplay.

Pat

Patrick Ward wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:03 pm

devoncop wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:45 pm It could be argued that it is poor practice to dissuade a consumer from exercising rights offered to them by Steam. It also makes it sound like the producer's of Panzer Corps 2 have less than total faith in their own product (which I am sure is not the case).

I'm not sure from your wording whether you're suggesting we try to dissuade users from refunding, or if you're just suggesting it would be a stupid thing to do.

Either way, we've no problem with Steams refund policy and it can be demonstrated, let alone argued, that on many occaisions we have suggested users do exactly that. For hardware compatability alone its often the only way to be sure since it's impossible for us to test on every potential combination. There's plenty of videos out there too that demonstrate aspects of gameplay.

Pat

I am suggesting the latter Patrick.

It is reassuring that you confirm you are happy with the present policy on Steam and as far as I am aware that is all that gokkel was suggesting to the OP to hopefully let him see if the game was what he hoped for. My concern was that Kerensky's initial response gave an overly defensive impression.

Thank you for your reply.

devoncop wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:22 pm

Patrick Ward wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:03 pm

devoncop wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:45 pm It could be argued that it is poor practice to dissuade a consumer from exercising rights offered to them by Steam. It also makes it sound like the producer's of Panzer Corps 2 have less than total faith in their own product (which I am sure is not the case).

I'm not sure from your wording whether you're suggesting we try to dissuade users from refunding, or if you're just suggesting it would be a stupid thing to do.

Either way, we've no problem with Steams refund policy and it can be demonstrated, let alone argued, that on many occaisions we have suggested users do exactly that. For hardware compatability alone its often the only way to be sure since it's impossible for us to test on every potential combination. There's plenty of videos out there too that demonstrate aspects of gameplay.

Pat

I am suggesting the latter Patrick.

It is reassuring that you confirm you are happy with the present policy on Steam and as far as I am aware that is all that gokkel was suggesting to the OP to hopefully let him see if the game was what he hoped for. My concern was that Kerensky's initial response gave an overly defensive impression.

Thank you for your reply.

Kerensky was simply being pragmatic and he's correct that abuse of Steams policy will have a negative impact. Suggesting people should use the system regularly is not a good idea.

But it's part of a system we've signed up to and is useful for some people under certain circumstances. It's designed to help people, in good faith. Buying a game with the determination to refund in a couple of hours just so you can get some free gameplay is an abuse of that good faith and something we should all discourage.

In this case 2 hours is not enough time to even get through the tutorials so they'll likely miss many of the mechanics and not benefit from the new ones introduced with updates and DLC. Personally I don't think the refund policy is that useful here and if the user wants to evaluate deeper gameplay then they would be better off watching Edmunds videos.

Moot point anyway since the OP seems to of already made up their mind.

Pat

Thanks for the lively discussion. So again a short info why I asked for a demo or trial version.
I started with Panzergeneral 1 and a short time later with 3D (english PG2), which were very extensive and therefore very interesting.
Then came Blitzkrieg with many extensions and SuddenStrike. All good games. When Panzerkorps came out, it became the first choice of my games and I spent many hours and days on it.
Now I play OoB, and I really like it. But I'm always looking for something new, so I hoped to get a trial version at PC2 to test it in peace (and before I spend 60 Euro senselessly because I didn't like it), because the pictures and turials are not enough for me.
2 hours of testing via Steam (I don't like Steam and only use it for Beta Test OoB) I think it's too little to get a small overview of the game.
But since there is no test version of PC2 and I have 60 Euro for the Field Marshal or 40 Euro for the noras version, it's just too much money to throw it out the window.
That's why I'll give up this game and wait until it's available for 10 Euro on eBay.

I think some people might feel "guilty" about spending money on games rather than on "useful" items for them and their families.
Personally as a single man I don't have that problem and am happy to splash out big cash on every game that takes my interest.
And if people say to me "Switch off that computer and get out into the real world", I reply- "But gaming IS the real world"..

Sure, after buying some games I find I don't like them as much as I thought I would, but hey that's the chance we all have to take..
"He either fears his fate too much, or his deserts are small, who dare not put it to the touch to win or lose it all"- Duke of Montrose

Below: my current games-

no RTS ww2 games??? like company oh heroes 1 and 2 ? where are Blitzkrieg 1 to 3 ? sudden strike 1 to 4 ? codename panzer 1 to 2 ?
and like turn by turn on WW2 :
where are Unity of command 1 and 2 ? panzer tactics HD ?

jeffoot77 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:40 pm no RTS ww2 games??? like company oh heroes 1 and 2 ? where are Blitzkrieg 1 to 3 ? sudden strike 1 to 4 ? codename panzer 1 to 2 ?
and like turn by turn on WW2 :
where are Unity of command 1 and 2 ? panzer tactics HD ?

I've got some games from other manufacturers not on my list such as the Combat Mission series, but of all the games I own, I only play a very few regularly, I'm one helluva picky individual..

PoorOldSpike wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:34 am

Juansana wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:18 am OK, then PC2 has finished for me. Thanks

WAIT! Me and my mates will chip in and buy you PC2 as a gift, no problem..

Okay, but then only the Field Marshal version

Juansana wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:11 pm Okay, but then only the Field Marshal version

Alright you should have received it from the Slith/Matrix store by now, let me know if it hasn't arrived..

PoorOldSpike wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:10 pm

Juansana wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:11 pm Okay, but then only the Field Marshal version

Alright you should have received it from the Slith/Matrix store by now, let me know if it hasn't arrived..

It has arrived. Thanks again. And it's going... at least the tutorial