Slitherine

So Kharkov 42 end of turn1 i have 2 of 3* bombers in the north near Novograd?
Anyway i click end turn and 2 fighters show up , both get 1 or 2 damage. The retaliation shows no damage ie 11 strength for my bomber. You'd think my bomber is fine...
Other moves progress by the AI, then at the end of the AI's turn suddenly my bombers nosedive into the ground. It doesnt make sense to me.They couldnt scratch my bomber and took damage in return, yet a full 11 strength bomber dies suddenly in 1 move after weathering tons of attacks in all the previous maps?

In Moscow it fended off 4 fighters at full strength without hardly a scratch at 2 damage.

I wish i could see the AI attack log to understand it. I just dont believe they do 8+ damage to force it to nosedive.

Attached a save (just need to click end turn and watch) so if someone could rationalise it for me , it'd be appreciated. Bear in mind the AI aircraft get a massive negative which reduces the attack to something like 34% accuracy.

They shoot first...

========================== (66th LaGG-3) attacks (24th Do 217E) ==========================

***** Main Stage *****

Combat range: 0

Attacker's Initiative:
Base Initiative: 2
* Attacker's Effective Initiative: 2

Defender's Initiative:
Base Initiative: 1
Mass Attack: 0
* Defender's Effective Initiative: 1

Initiative Difference: 2 - 1 = +1
Attacker shoots first. 20% of damage will be applied before defender can shoot back.

>> (66th LaGG-3) strikes:

Base Number of Shots (unsuppressed strength): 10
* Effective Number of Shots: 10

Base Accuracy: 50
Penalty from enemy unit's experience: -12
Proximity to base bonus: +26
Weather modifier: 0.50x
* Effective Accuracy: 32%

Base Attack rating: 5
* Effective Attack: 5

Base Defense rating: 9
* Effective Defense: 9

Deflect/Suppress/Kill chances: 60% / 20% / 20%

Rolls (first roll determines Hit or Miss, second roll determines Deflect, Suppress or Kill):
11(Miss)
12(Miss)
27(Miss)
57(Miss)
46(Miss)
37(Miss)
62(Miss)
10(Miss)
46(Miss)
58(Miss)
* Real result: 0 killed, 0 suppressed

>> (24th Do 217E) strikes:

Base Number of Shots (unsuppressed strength): 11
* Effective Number of Shots: 11

Base Accuracy: 50
Bonus from experience: +30
Weather modifier: 0.50x
* Effective Accuracy: 40%

Base Attack rating: 5
* Effective Attack: 5

Base Defense rating: 6
* Effective Defense: 6

Deflect/Suppress/Kill chances: 45% / 42% / 13%

Rolls (first roll determines Hit or Miss, second roll determines Deflect, Suppress or Kill):
31(Miss)
94(Hit) -> 41(Deflect)
78(Hit) -> 63(Suppress)
98(Hit) -> 44(Deflect)
41(Miss)
59(Miss)
87(Hit) -> 64(Suppress)
62(Hit) -> 67(Suppress)
89(Hit) -> 84(Suppress)
51(Miss)
36(Miss)
* Real result: 0 killed, 4 suppressed

Makes no sense to me why the bomber died.

The way they "crashed into the ground at the end of the AI turn" sounds like you lost their airfield.

I can't check the save right now (will have a try a little later if I can)

But you can check yourself - was their airport captured in the AI turn? Did you have another airport they could then rebase to? (remember strats can't base at dirt airfields)

Also if it is raining they can not rebase either.

Thats was it thanks. The cheesy AI recon car snuck out of encirclement into Kharkov and took the hex of the airfield. The southern one was full....

It was driving me crazy trying to find the problem. Knew i should of nailed that recon car.

fluffybunnyuk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:10 am Thats was it thanks. The cheesy AI recon car snuck out of encirclement into Kharkov and took the hex of the airfield. The southern one was full....

It was driving me crazy trying to find the problem. Knew i should of nailed that recon car.

No probs - yeah gotta watch out for those sneaky sneaky recon units. I find the AI uses them annoyingly well (slipping through the cracks to hit the vulnerable targets like Art)

Horseman wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:23 am- yeah gotta watch out for those sneaky sneaky recon units. I find the AI uses them annoyingly well (slipping through the cracks to hit the vulnerable targets like Art)

Suggestion to the devs for a future patch 5-
Create a new "Garrison unit" or "Security detachment" for all nations which is say only 5 strength maximum and dirt cheap (and needs only 1 slot or half a slot) which we can buy to garrison airfields and other sensitive spots like objectives, road junctions, bridges etc to stop enemy recons from just waltzing in unopposed.
At the moment the only way to get garrisons is to buy a cheap unit such as a Bridger and split it into two to get 2 garrisons, that works ok but looks kinda unrealistic to have Bridgers all over the place.

WIKI- The Wehrmacht security divisions were set up at the beginning of 1941 and were intended to perform policing, security and counter-insurgency duties in the rear of the main German field armies.
They were organised from divisions initially raised in the 3rd wave of mobilisation, these being former Landwehr divisions largely manned by second-line reservists.
As Rear Security Divisions they were not well equipped like front line troops, some of the divisions started out as infantry divisions but once they were assigned to rear security, their heavy weapons were sent off to be used by front line troops.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_ ... Wehrmacht)

If in the beginning of your phase it is raining or snowing, and the enemy has taken your airfield in the previous phase(s), then you lose all planes based on it.
Same for you - if you're attacking, during rain or snow turns try to take the enemy's airfields, and you destroy the planes there. If you're the defender, then look at tomorrow's weather, and do the same if it will rain or snow.

Planes are notoriously hard to destroy, and easy to replace (as they cost only little prestige) - this is one way to get rid of them fast.
BTW: the aircraft prestige changes resulted that now fighters gain XP too slow. I never got them over 2 stars by the end of the campaign...

Use as many strat bombers as you can manage early game ... 4-6 is nice.
They rack up xp so very fast as size 11/13 units. Carpet bomb everything even if it isnt really the focus and you have spare bombers.
Meanwhile Let 2 fighters get the air ace feats preferably +2 air attack.

Later when the strat bombers hit 4 * switch 2 into fighters and 2 into tactical bombers.
That leaves you 0-2 experienced 4* strat bombers for immediate targets suppressing in front of your front line.
And 2x 3* fighters and 2x3* tactical bombers.
Switch the 2 old fighters into strat bombers. They make great flying tanks with the air ace feat deal alot of damage to fighters while carpet bombing for xp.

Without traits I usually have enough xp to do the switch around Operation Blue. If theres a early fast learner hero or have the extra 25% xp trait i've managed to switch at Dijon!

Its like the importance of having 2 tanks with steamroller switched to AT then artillery with the steamroller trait. Upgrading those 2 artillery units with the gustav and gerat gets a lovely double attack without heros providing you wipe the first target out.

Theres lots of great switcheroo units in the game. 4* Tanks into 3* AT or 2* AA. Gives meaning to those flammpanzers racking up xp too.

EDIT: I use the 2xtactical bombers as storch scouts split into 4. One of each unit covers the gerat/gustav while the spare ones from each split fly off to provide that juicy 14% accuracy bonus. Cheap for 1 slot each.

PoorOldSpike wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:11 am Suggestion to the devs for a future patch 5-
Create a new "Garrison unit" or "Security detachment"

In the case of the Germans , you could add a little spice to this otherwise utterly boring unit by putting them in green uniforms ( reserve police battalions ) , or blue uniforms. ( foreign volunteers , " Hiwi's " ) For those who actually zoom in occasionally for the eye candy , anyway.

In the case of Russia , you could put them in NKVD uniform. ( Actually the Russian cavalry uniform already in the game looks very NKVD - looking. )

Of course reserve police battalions , Hiwi's , and the NKVD all had nasty reputations ....

But a security unit , at least in the case of these countries , could be something other than totally boring , at least if you are into pretty models .