Slitherine

The hardest scenario of the game is definitely a bit harder now.

Instantly visible is the AI usage of aircraft. No more isolated bombers to slowly pick off. Everyone is clustering up with fighter escort.
I'm also noticing some other more subtle AI movement.

Units seem to want to avoid moving next to units that are going to do a ton of damage to them, where before they would just move anywhere near enemies.

Pretty neat stuff.

Oh man.. it's sooo much harder now.
I actually got my butt kicked. Just completely overwhelmed at Berlin.
And of course the deathblow came from the uber conscript wave.

The AI is much better at moving faster and more intelligently now.

Good luck getting this particular achievement now.

I barely survived it before the patch, would not want to see it now. I think I only made it because the Amis/Brits went at big time with the Russians and wasted a huge amount of time and force on each other rather than killing me.

elven wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:20 am I barely survived it before the patch, would not want to see it now. I think I only made it because the Amis/Brits went at big time with the Russians and wasted a huge amount of time and force on each other rather than killing me.

Enemy of your enemy is your friend. Making the Western Allies not play nice with the Soviets was an extremely deliberate choice. The hard part is getting them to fight each other. But if the right wave combination happens to trigger... it's very likely the Brits and Soviets will quite fiercely tear into each other. Must be Churchill getting a bit overzealous with Operation Unthinkable there. lol

lol what is it with the monster stacks of conscripts? I had some relief fallschirmjägers dropped and thought I was 1 round away from establishing a stable defensive parameter. And poof. Whole stack of paras gone lol

Ok now this is really stupid. I tried again, 3 hours or something.
And its not just 1 stack with 100 conscripts but 3, one of them with 150 even.
God who knows what will come after that.
Why on earth put this sh*t in the scenario? Its actually real fun until this stuff appears.
The stack near the Bunker started the round with like 80 HP.
I threw the Brummbär, the Wespe, both the Wurfrahmens and a cheap stratbomber on it. Then attacked with a 20 stack of fallschimjägers.
As suppression mechanics work (decreasing effect) I'm at 18 suppressed of 66 HP.
And as you can see, this one is not the worst!
I'm probably supposed to intercept them in the open with armor. But this is so silly. It takes the whole "play as u like" thing from it.
If I do not park a steel wall east of Berlin, Im done.

Duedman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:25 pm I'm probably supposed to intercept them in the open with armor. But this is so silly. It takes the whole "play as u like" thing from it.
If I do not park a steel wall east of Berlin, Im done.

Ahh conscripts, how many dotr runs have you crushed?
And yes, if they reach the urban expanse of Berlin, it's definitely bad news.

Interesting to note your foraging team plan is extremely aggressive. Perhaps more of those units needed to be sent to help Berlin?

And next run... those conscripts may not even show up. It could it an entirely different massively overpowering Elite wave that shows up.

Kerensky wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:09 pm
Ahh conscripts, how many dotr runs have you crushed?
And yes, if they reach the urban expanse of Berlin, it's definitely bad news.

Interesting to note your foraging team plan is extremely aggressive. Perhaps more of those units needed to be sent to help Berlin?

And next run... those conscripts may not even show up. It could it an entirely different massively overpowering Elite wave that shows up.

It is my "first" run. Reloaded 6 turns earlier to prepare.
These conscript stacks of doom are fun in a way. But quite a nasty surprise in terms of gameplay mechanics.

A few questions:

Is it somehow possible to raise the coreslot limit? A first I thougt "wow, thats plenty". But at turn 39 I'm at 691/300.
It kinda snowballs. And I get mediocre units all the time. I "upgrade" all the trash ATs to scoutcars already.
Also, does it give any reward to capture Allied reinforcement zones?
I got an american bunker down to like 85 and a soviet down to 75. Then the waves hit. But had I focused more, it might be possible to dislodge at least 1 AA unit from a supply hex
Btw. one of the tanks of this russian tank wave did oneshot the str9 Panther backed up by the Str15 Jagdpanther. Holy moly
And on a sidenote:
I got a Super Pershing, an IS3 and lately a Karl Gerät.
The Pershing is defendig Berling an raising the star spangled banner lol
Dont know if thats intended

Wow you're really tearing up that scenario. I didn't think such an aggressive strategy of depot hunting was feasible. I guess it makes sense in a way because it can snowball, but I always found trying to be too aggressive with depots meant Berlin fell to ruin, which is game ending.

Yes those conscripts are a very nasty surprise, but we tried to use them carefully. It's a 1 in 3 chance for those conscript swarms to be the first Elite attack wave, the other 2 out of 3 chances create American or British Elite waves, which are crazy in their own unique ways.

That quirk of the bonus super Pershing planting flags is strange, but not harmful. It's really subtle, but it at least is planting grey US flags and not green US flags. Might have to keep an eye on this though, it will affect bonus unit gifts from other nations.

You can still buy units with your prestige, but they will appear as auxiliaries. Always do that carefully, because auxiliaries cannot be refunded for prestige on disband.

As the briefing points out though, there are no rewards for trying to force your way into the reinforcement zones. They are there for player protection, to serve as a buffer between the player and the AI purchasing/acquiring new units. And from the screenshot, it looks like the final Soviet Elite Wave is nearly on top of you. I recognize that swarm of 15 strength max experience armor instantly.

I just realized this problem is even more bizarre

At the start of Defenders of the Reich, you start the scenario with Oberleutnant Heinrici.... in a captured Firefly Tulip
But it has proper grey ownership and German flag marker too

Duedman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:42 amlol what is it with the monster stacks of conscripts? I had some relief fallschirmjägers dropped and thought I was 1 round away from establishing a stable defensive parameter. And poof. Whole stack of paras gone lol

I haven't played the Berlin scen yet, so as a matter of interest what are the combat factors of Conscripts in there?
In the mission generator their factors are Soft attack=5, Hard attack=4, Ground defence=3, and they can be superstrengthed to a maximum of 25, so on paper they should be as harmless as fluffy kittens.
Presumably the 150-strength ones in Berlin perform better by sheer weight of numbers, but how much better? Should I fear them if I tangle with them?

PoorOldSpike wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:13 am Presumably the 150-strength ones in Berlin perform better by sheer weight of numbers, but how much better? Should I fear them if I tangle with them?

You might not even see these conscripts when you play. It's only a 1 in 3 chance of happening.

But if you do encounter them, that 100/150 strength means they throw 100/150 attack dice.
In other words, their puny attack ratings vs a King Tiger does nothing. 150 rifle bullets will plink off that thick armor with no effect.
But if they caught you in close terrain and start throwing 150 grenades down your hatch... they can destroy pretty much any unit in a single engagement.

A ton of artillery, fighting them in the open, and encirclement tactics to prevent their ammo from replenishing is vital to taking them on.

But again, you may not even face them. It's entirely possible you will face a different uber threat.

Someone should post strategy tips for this scenario cause I've struggled mightly with it (even before the latest patch mind you), without being able to claim a victory.

I just found that I had too few units to do anything meaningful. I mean I had to break through to Berlin, but that takes a sizeable chunk of my force to do, and when I finally broke through, almost all of the starting Berlin units had been wiped out because they were surrounded for so long. And at the same time I had to divert forces to take other towns and objectives to gather prestige/units. It worked decently for a few turns but then some really powerful tanks showed up and steamrolled half of my units in Frankfurt and it was game over.

Kerensky wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:53 pm You can still buy units with your prestige, but they will appear as auxiliaries. Always do that carefully, because auxiliaries cannot be refunded for prestige on disband.

And from the screenshot, it looks like the final Soviet Elite Wave is nearly on top of you. I recognize that swarm of 15 strength max experience armor instantly.

Awww....Im stupid. Thanks for the info with Aux. So I couldve just disbanded some of the trash core units for their prestige and bought aux.

And yes. This final wave was badass. I thought I was in such a good shape that they would pose no threat.
Well.... it was the first time 3 of my units got overrun by the same enemy tank lol
When I saw them I began shuffling some armor including an E75 to the east. But soon after he was also fighting for his life. As was the Super Pershing.

After the wave advanced a few hexes away from the bunkers, I used aggressive "suicide hedgehog" followed by "suicide encirclement".
Meaning I took strong AT like Jagdpanther or -tiger and surrounded them with units that had no further use at this point (basically everything except from heavy infantry).
The Soviets took no prisoners but got quite some return fire + suppression from the ATs.
After that they were still nigh invincible. Then I took whatever trash units were left and encircled them. Even used my brave Berlin-defending Paras from the first rounds for that.
Soviets would easily slaughter their way out of the encirclement but with with damage and suppression (from attacking the hedgehog) and encirclement adding up, their power began to wane.

In these few rounds my prestige was totally melting. I started the wave with like 8000 and was scraping the barrel 5 turns later.

I have to say that this game surprised me once again. The Scenario was super fun, thanks

MickMannock wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:32 am Someone should post strategy tips for this scenario cause I've struggled mightly with it (even before the latest patch mind you), without being able to claim a victory.

I just found that I had too few units to do anything meaningful. I mean I had to break through to Berlin, but that takes a sizeable chunk of my force to do, and when I finally broke through, almost all of the starting Berlin units had been wiped out because they were surrounded for so long. And at the same time I had to divert forces to take other towns and objectives to gather prestige/units. It worked decently for a few turns but then some really powerful tanks showed up and steamrolled half of my units in Frankfurt and it was game over.

What I did was to grab depots aggressively to snowball into more units/prestige to take even more depots.
I think the right start is important.

You can insta grab the airfield to the right (Panzerwerfer + Recon).
You can also try a bit with what rewards u get (undo button lets you roll the rewards again. I didnt say that. Usually its not necessary but several PanzerIIINs and no money might hurt at the start.)
The western cities are also relatively easy grabs.
Then its on to Leipzig. I did not go further East than the first airfield until much later.

What I found out to be very helpful units at the start:
2 cheap 2 slot strat bombers. Just for getting rid of entrenchment.
2 mobile 8.8 Flaks. Enemy bombers cost u loads of money.
Some Me262s (bought 4 in the end) for the same reason + escort duty.
At least 1 max overstrengthed Pioniere with Halftrack. 2 might have been even better.
Several waves of Str. 20 Paratroopers.
At least 1 E75 and 1 Panther. Nothing else stands a chance later on (neither does the Panther but thats until very late)


So I snowballed depots to the west with a soso force. Didnt expect Monster units like the ones attacking Berlin and was right (but dont forget the bridge Panzer!!).
Main force rolled on to Leipzig and surrounded it.
After a few rounds I dropped the first Paras into empty Berlin hexes (btw. I also put all AA in Berlin directly into AT mode - otherwise they shoot like crazy, hit nothing, and end up with no ammo. So I could at least shoot some holes into the first tanks until the AA was fully supressed).
Dropped some more to buy time 2 rounds later.
The halftracked Pioniere I used for the rather tricky Elbe crossing east of Leipzig. You can embark them in the Forest tile on the northern side of the river and then mop up. They cannot be touched in close terrain.
Later they are vital for Berlin urban combat. They even do not outright die when 80 conscripts attack lol. I probably should have bought at least 1 more of them.

A bit later (after I reloaded a turn 12 save) I put the "Oberst Loewe" E75 to the east of Berlin. In my case there were ISU-152 Arty/ATs approaching. Hammering a Panther just with artillery fire and also chipping away at Adolfs Bunker. The E75 is untouchable by those. Even if one of the ISUs defends as AT.
The Bunker was for a very long time my frontline which was not Ideal. But I cycled the defensive unit. The very hard hitting Comet stopped shooting, after the Jagdtiger took defensive position
The 150 stack of conscripts did quite some damage to the allies and then ended up with no ammo as a free for all training dummy.
I also had a Panzerwerfer 42 artillery. With these its important not to shoot every time just because you can.
If it defends something and next to that something are more than 1 enemy infantry - DONT SHOOT. If u attacked yourself, u then only got 1 ammo left. Then the enemy will attack and the second wave wont be greeted by rapid fire. So - shoot wisely lol

As for the depot grabbing.... just dont overextend and always have at least 1 decent AT gun next to your units. And AA + Fighters near the valuable ones.
Dont put Infantry in the open. Even the Volks-units put up a decent fight when put in a forest.
Encircle wherever possible. For example, you can encircle both the Major depot and the city west of Leipzig with just 4 trash infantry while them all being in Forest. Takes a while (and a strat bomber) but u cant do much with those units anyway.